The secret cell phone enforcer on my flight
Oct 17, 2018, 1:34 pm
#91
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: COU
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Someone should really tell the FAA they don't have any rules about portable electronic devices, because they sure seem to think they do:
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/ped/
The tl;df of which is: it's generally safe (but not always) to use PEDs on airplanes. The FAA will work with airlines to roll out procedures to allow them to be safely used.
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/ped/
The tl;df of which is: it's generally safe (but not always) to use PEDs on airplanes. The FAA will work with airlines to roll out procedures to allow them to be safely used.
The FAA is not considering the use of cell phones for voice communications during flight because Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations currently prohibit any airborne calls using cell phones.
Airplane Mode. The operator should continue to require passengers to place their PEDs in “Airplane Mode” (cellular transmitters off) from the time the aircraft takes off until it lands. If the aircraft is equipped with on-board wireless services, the operator should address the acceptable times for when the passengers may turn on their PEDs and connect to the wireless services. Aircraft equipped with wireless systems have been tested to ensure that they will not interfere with the aircraft’s avionics.
Note: FCC regulations 47 CFR 22.925 prohibits the use of some cellular services while inflight. Requiring “Airplane Mode” during PED operation will help prevent violation of these regulations.
The FAA is providing guidance here specifically because of the FCC regulations, not their own. As I said before there's no FAA regulation on the subject. Feel free to browse through the appropriate USC title online; this isn't the first thread where I've issued that invite. So far nobody's come up with the elusive FAA regulation banning phones.
Also just as an aside the mention in that same InFO of carriers requiring airplane mode "from the time the aircraft takes off until it lands" is interesting for its precision; the earlier poster here who claimed that saying "in flight" doesn't matter because taxi is "part of the flight" may have a harder time with this language. Anyway back to your points:
Phones and electronic devices
You can use your cell phone, laptop computer and other electronic devices onboard until advised by the flight crew, but cell phone calls aren't allowed during flight.By the way, the FAA also addresses the very situation the OP and his off-duty seat mate faced in their FAQs:
Quote:
What should I do if the crew says to turn off electronics and the person next to me doesn't do it?
You could politely remind the person of the crew's announcement, but above all, avoid a confrontation.
Quote:
What should I do if the crew says to turn off electronics and the person next to me doesn't do it?
You could politely remind the person of the crew's announcement, but above all, avoid a confrontation.
What should I do if the crew says to turn off electronics and the person next to me doesn't do it?
Congratulations jordyn: it's got to be tough to write a post that long and have literally every single sentence be wrong!
Oct 17, 2018, 3:29 pm
#92
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
The FAA is providing guidance here specifically because of the FCC regulations, not their own. As I said before there's no FAA regulation on the subject. Feel free to browse through the appropriate USC title online; this isn't the first thread where I've issued that invite. So far nobody's come up with the elusive FAA regulation banning phones.
But since you want a USC title, here you go: 14 C.F.R § 91.21
Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate;
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate;
(Edited to add, since I forgot to address the point about AA's policy--the rest of your tirade is mostly just differences of opinion that you're trying to pass off as unequivocal facts):
There's no AA policy saying you have to go into airplane mode when the door closes. The policy is when the crew announces.
When the aircraft doors are closed for departure, devices will need to be in airplane mode.
Last edited by jordyn; Oct 17, 2018 at 7:20 pm
Oct 17, 2018, 5:25 pm
#93
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 167
It has now been explained to you maybe a dozen times that OP didn't do anything wrong or illegal, and yet you keep repeating your strained argument which relies completely on that incorrect fact. NO ONE here has argued that only police can admonish somebody for breaking the law. Not one person. But OP didn't break the law. As such this non-rev passenger was out of line in trying to assert false authority to force compliance with non-existent rules.
Meanwhile, you're not likely to catch me on the Air New Zealand board lecturing a bunch of Kiwis on how they're breaking their own laws. If you insist on continuing, show some receipts; all our federal laws are searchable online.
Meanwhile, you're not likely to catch me on the Air New Zealand board lecturing a bunch of Kiwis on how they're breaking their own laws. If you insist on continuing, show some receipts; all our federal laws are searchable online.
And there is a big difference between an observation and a command. "Stop!" is an imperative and an expression of authority. "You should stop" is an observation (perhaps the person is about to run into a wall). If someone says "It's illegal to operate a device blah blah blah" then they are merely making an observation, which *may* be incorrect, but is not rude or inappropriate in and of itself. If they say "turn off your device" they are making a command, which may be inappropriate.
I like to think it comes down to manners, not laws. If behaviour may bother someone, don't do it; if you see someone else doing it, then call it out. If someone's using the iron too long in a gym changing room, or eating chips noisily on a bus, or obstructing a narrow path in a supermarket, then they're being a bother to others. Personally I think it's a lack of proper socialisation at an early age (either boarding school, or sharing a dressing room for team sports would teach them to be more appreciative of the needs of others). In this case, a cellphone on a flight might well be a bother to others.
Oct 17, 2018, 5:32 pm
#94
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 167
I know I'm ranting, but if instead of snide passive aggressive photo taking or whining on FT after the fact, if we told the bugger putting his bare feet on the seat to not put his bare feet on the seat, the problem would be solved. We wouldn't need passenger shaming. If some large passenger is taking up your space, shove him back in his.
And I know this is further ranting, but there's a common thread in a lot of FT posters that seems to think the only way to address something negative is to elevate it (e.g. telling this offduty FA's boss) rather than addressing it at the root. if you think what she did is inappropriate, tell her. Don't go narking to the boss like some sort of milksop.
Oct 17, 2018, 10:29 pm
#95
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PNS
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA
Posts: 700
What is the end point of this thread? There is not going to be a resolution no matter what "side" you are on. It's a one off.. Spend your time making our FFP better and not devaluation or lobby the gubmant.
Spoken my peace..
Spoken my peace..
Oct 18, 2018, 12:40 pm
#97
Join Date: May 2017
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat Pro, HH Gold, National Exec
Posts: 41
So, let me get this straight. The only person on a plane who is allowed to point out someone doing something wrong is a flight attendant (and/or the pilot, I guess).
The rest of us lack the requisite authority and should merely remain bystanders. "Stay in our lane" as the saying goes.
If my seatmate takes out a cleaver and starts hewing at the man in the middle seat, well, I might call the attendant I guess, but if I intervene I will get shocked FTers telling me that I should mind my own business.
But doesn't that create a paradox when an attendant asks for passenger help to subdue an unruly passenger? on the one hand, we have to obey, but on the other, in doing so we are usurping their rightful authority.
I'll say this: if the only people allowed to intervene when wrong is done are those invested with specific authority, like police, then we're going to need a lot more cops.
The rest of us lack the requisite authority and should merely remain bystanders. "Stay in our lane" as the saying goes.
If my seatmate takes out a cleaver and starts hewing at the man in the middle seat, well, I might call the attendant I guess, but if I intervene I will get shocked FTers telling me that I should mind my own business.
But doesn't that create a paradox when an attendant asks for passenger help to subdue an unruly passenger? on the one hand, we have to obey, but on the other, in doing so we are usurping their rightful authority.
I'll say this: if the only people allowed to intervene when wrong is done are those invested with specific authority, like police, then we're going to need a lot more cops.
I know you know this, but these two comparisons are about as idiotic as I have seen. You are comparing an out of line off duty FA and cell phone policy with murder? I'll leave it at that.
Oct 18, 2018, 12:44 pm
#98
Join Date: May 2017
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat Pro, HH Gold, National Exec
Posts: 41
Before the door is closed? I think it's reasonable to assume given the current laws/policies that you can email or text until the announcement to stop has been made? Are pax now required to keep an eye on the door to anticipate when it is being closed?
Oct 18, 2018, 1:38 pm
#99
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Many of the earlier commenters commented not on the specific legality or lack thereof of the particular point, but rather on a general rule that one should avoid sticking one's beak in.
And there is a big difference between an observation and a command. "Stop!" is an imperative and an expression of authority. "You should stop" is an observation (perhaps the person is about to run into a wall). If someone says "It's illegal to operate a device blah blah blah" then they are merely making an observation, which *may* be incorrect, but is not rude or inappropriate in and of itself. If they say "turn off your device" they are making a command, which may be inappropriate.
I like to think it comes down to manners, not laws. If behaviour may bother someone, don't do it; if you see someone else doing it, then call it out. If someone's using the iron too long in a gym changing room, or eating chips noisily on a bus, or obstructing a narrow path in a supermarket, then they're being a bother to others. Personally I think it's a lack of proper socialisation at an early age (either boarding school, or sharing a dressing room for team sports would teach them to be more appreciative of the needs of others). In this case, a cellphone on a flight might well be a bother to others.
And there is a big difference between an observation and a command. "Stop!" is an imperative and an expression of authority. "You should stop" is an observation (perhaps the person is about to run into a wall). If someone says "It's illegal to operate a device blah blah blah" then they are merely making an observation, which *may* be incorrect, but is not rude or inappropriate in and of itself. If they say "turn off your device" they are making a command, which may be inappropriate.
I like to think it comes down to manners, not laws. If behaviour may bother someone, don't do it; if you see someone else doing it, then call it out. If someone's using the iron too long in a gym changing room, or eating chips noisily on a bus, or obstructing a narrow path in a supermarket, then they're being a bother to others. Personally I think it's a lack of proper socialisation at an early age (either boarding school, or sharing a dressing room for team sports would teach them to be more appreciative of the needs of others). In this case, a cellphone on a flight might well be a bother to others.
In terms of "should", at least in the US, most people would say that is a request or even a command. To show you that point, if you fly in the US you often hear flight attendants say "you need to ..." Are they just making an observation?
Oct 18, 2018, 5:06 pm
#100
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Oct 18, 2018, 7:46 pm
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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No, it's not. Shouting STOP doesn't even imply authority. The manager of my company has a six year old son who often comes to the office; I quite like him. Sometimes he shouts "STOP." That hardly means that he has any authority.
Oct 18, 2018, 10:23 pm
#104
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
It’s funny because when I landed in Phoenix a few days ago during a flash flood warning a couple of loud alarms went off in the cockpit which turned out to be the phones of the pilots who had clearly not put their phones in airplane mode. Once we had landed everyone else’s phone started going off with the emergency warning as people turned airplane mode off.
Another time I was on a transcon flight and my phone wouldn’t connect to the Wi-Fi. The flight attendant switched airplane mode on and off as part of their troubleshooting efforts.
I share these anecdotes simply because I think that most people take a far less hardline stance on this than the OP’s neighbor on their flight.
Another time I was on a transcon flight and my phone wouldn’t connect to the Wi-Fi. The flight attendant switched airplane mode on and off as part of their troubleshooting efforts.
I share these anecdotes simply because I think that most people take a far less hardline stance on this than the OP’s neighbor on their flight.
Oct 25, 2018, 12:55 pm
#105
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: COU
Programs: AA EXP, Bonvoy Ambassador, Hertz PC
Posts: 499
The rest of your post appears to have no meaningful content, so I won't bother commenting on it.
Last edited by HLCinCOU; Oct 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm