First AA Flight after 1 year of leaving for Delta. How do you guys do this?
Sep 11, 2018, 4:04 pm
#76
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP, SPG / Marriott GLD, HHonors GLD
Posts: 520
I think what this thread basically comes down to is what you prioritize. I was a longtime DL PM that has been EXP the last three years and hasn't looked back. Based in SFO and refusing to take UA basically gives me the choice of AA vs DL as I do a lot of international.
I value -
(1) upgrades. AA wins hands down. I earned 8 SWUs last year that can be used on any fare. This is a huge benefit. My upgrade rates are far, far higher than any of my friends or colleagues on UA or DL who are 1Ks or Diamonds. I'm batting 92% on domestic upgrades this year and haven't missed a transcon upgrade either. AA hasn't monetized the F cabin yet to nonstatus folks to buy upgrades (which DL and UA are insanely aggressive doing). And AA doesn't consider their version of C+ an upgrade - MCE is automatic at booking at midtier level. If you aren't EXP or Plat Pro I agree DL's upgrade scheme is better but I don't think GM or below ever get upgraded anymore
(2) Benefits travelling internationally. I do Asia for work 7-10 times per year. As an EXP I get insanely better treatment on AA's partners than DL or UA offer - first class check in, first class lounge access (the Pier in HKG or QF in LAX is miles and miles ahead of anything DL offers, not to mention the nice AA FL's and AA FFD); and I find myself having gotten quite a few op ups on partners. CX blocks seats next to you in Y or W if you're emerald. And most of my flying is Asia - sorry, but I'd much rather fly Cathay or JAL than one of the Chinese airlines or KAL. UA may have the better route network and partner network but OW partner airlines are almost universally very high quality airlines
(3) IRROPS handling and SDC. DL SDC is far better, AA really should have a more competitive offering that gives you routing flexiblity. For IRROPS DL definitely handles a bit better- they're very proactive, but with AA rolling out rebooking on the app this year I've found it very easy (and flexible) in its offerings. Plus the EXP line and more importantly, Admirals Club staff have always taken great care of me too. Not really a huge benefit.
(4) Hard product. This is a tough one - DL wins hands down domestic with fresher cabins and power!! IFE is a nice touch but all I really care about is power. But AA wins hands down internationally - plus has better pitch in domestic F (which doesn't really make a difference for me). And in international J the DL coffin seats that are the majority of their fleet are horrible.
(5) Use of miles - AA wins hands down. If you focus on international partner redemptions I find they're pretty readily available and a much better deal than the insane mileage costs for DL. AA offers far more last minute deals too. And AA's domestic saavers have really improved this year. DL's dynamic pricing on domestics can be really rough.
I care less about
(5) In flight service - I find DL has more consistent crews, especially domestically - but I don't really run into bad AA crews. DL also offers the water and pillow/blanket on every domestic flight which is a nice touch. I do think AA's transcon service is better / more premium.
(6) In flight meals - I'd rather eat in the lounge anyways, but I find generally that AA wins this. DL premium transcons are now one tray affairs; and what DL considers dinner on a normal midcon or transcon is truly sad - no nuts; no warm bread; cold packaged cookie; small portions; etc. Plus that hated snack basket. I much prefer the plated snacks.
If I lived in an AA or DL hub, the choice would probably be made for me. And if not, If I was a purely domestic flier, or a midtier flier with no chance of an upgrade, I'd probably choose Delta. But for those of us who do use OWE benefits extensively, and who value the free upgrade, AA (despite it's shortcomings) still offers some really good benefits, at the EXP level. And for my flying at least offers a better proposition than DL.
I value -
(1) upgrades. AA wins hands down. I earned 8 SWUs last year that can be used on any fare. This is a huge benefit. My upgrade rates are far, far higher than any of my friends or colleagues on UA or DL who are 1Ks or Diamonds. I'm batting 92% on domestic upgrades this year and haven't missed a transcon upgrade either. AA hasn't monetized the F cabin yet to nonstatus folks to buy upgrades (which DL and UA are insanely aggressive doing). And AA doesn't consider their version of C+ an upgrade - MCE is automatic at booking at midtier level. If you aren't EXP or Plat Pro I agree DL's upgrade scheme is better but I don't think GM or below ever get upgraded anymore
(2) Benefits travelling internationally. I do Asia for work 7-10 times per year. As an EXP I get insanely better treatment on AA's partners than DL or UA offer - first class check in, first class lounge access (the Pier in HKG or QF in LAX is miles and miles ahead of anything DL offers, not to mention the nice AA FL's and AA FFD); and I find myself having gotten quite a few op ups on partners. CX blocks seats next to you in Y or W if you're emerald. And most of my flying is Asia - sorry, but I'd much rather fly Cathay or JAL than one of the Chinese airlines or KAL. UA may have the better route network and partner network but OW partner airlines are almost universally very high quality airlines
(3) IRROPS handling and SDC. DL SDC is far better, AA really should have a more competitive offering that gives you routing flexiblity. For IRROPS DL definitely handles a bit better- they're very proactive, but with AA rolling out rebooking on the app this year I've found it very easy (and flexible) in its offerings. Plus the EXP line and more importantly, Admirals Club staff have always taken great care of me too. Not really a huge benefit.
(4) Hard product. This is a tough one - DL wins hands down domestic with fresher cabins and power!! IFE is a nice touch but all I really care about is power. But AA wins hands down internationally - plus has better pitch in domestic F (which doesn't really make a difference for me). And in international J the DL coffin seats that are the majority of their fleet are horrible.
(5) Use of miles - AA wins hands down. If you focus on international partner redemptions I find they're pretty readily available and a much better deal than the insane mileage costs for DL. AA offers far more last minute deals too. And AA's domestic saavers have really improved this year. DL's dynamic pricing on domestics can be really rough.
I care less about
(5) In flight service - I find DL has more consistent crews, especially domestically - but I don't really run into bad AA crews. DL also offers the water and pillow/blanket on every domestic flight which is a nice touch. I do think AA's transcon service is better / more premium.
(6) In flight meals - I'd rather eat in the lounge anyways, but I find generally that AA wins this. DL premium transcons are now one tray affairs; and what DL considers dinner on a normal midcon or transcon is truly sad - no nuts; no warm bread; cold packaged cookie; small portions; etc. Plus that hated snack basket. I much prefer the plated snacks.
If I lived in an AA or DL hub, the choice would probably be made for me. And if not, If I was a purely domestic flier, or a midtier flier with no chance of an upgrade, I'd probably choose Delta. But for those of us who do use OWE benefits extensively, and who value the free upgrade, AA (despite it's shortcomings) still offers some really good benefits, at the EXP level. And for my flying at least offers a better proposition than DL.
Sep 11, 2018, 4:54 pm
#77
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Olde Dominion
Programs: DL Silver - uh huh!
Posts: 948
This is most definitely true.
A recent evening DL flight I was on out of DTW went mechanical and I (FF member but no status) was put up in the DTW Westin overnight, was called by a customer service rep after I checked in to see if everything was OK, was promised a $100 check (real money, not a voucher) to pay for incidental expenses - it arrived 5 days later - and also was credited 10,000 miles that I wasn’t expecting. And I was just in coach.
Nothing but good things to say about Delta after that!
A recent evening DL flight I was on out of DTW went mechanical and I (FF member but no status) was put up in the DTW Westin overnight, was called by a customer service rep after I checked in to see if everything was OK, was promised a $100 check (real money, not a voucher) to pay for incidental expenses - it arrived 5 days later - and also was credited 10,000 miles that I wasn’t expecting. And I was just in coach.
Nothing but good things to say about Delta after that!
Sep 11, 2018, 4:59 pm
#78
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Programs: American Exec Plat, United 1k
Posts: 47
I am a full fledged free agent, and I am lucky enough this late in my career to have been in several programs (TWA FFP, anyone?). I chuckle to myself when I see these threads because the grass is always greener on the other side of the septic tank. Pluses and minuses from my point of view:
American
+ Flagship lounges are awesome
+ International business seats are generally better than the US competition
+ Upgrades and last minute first seats are easier for me, including switching flights
+ Fares are generally not excessive
- Seems to be a follower; little innovation
- Only spoke-to-hub
- International schedules (especially Asia) are very challenging. They only seem to want to work with just a few One World partners.
- Mileage awards are middle of the pack domestically, and very difficult or convoluted internationally. BA and Iberia with 6 hour layovers are sometimes the only options that are presented.
Delta
- Lounges at hub airports are WAY overcrowded and understaffed; no separate international lounge
+ Several point-to-point options
+ Generally mainline flights, and aircraft are in good shape
+ Good(but not great) international business seats, even if they do feel plastic (if you think the AA 767 seat is bad, try Delta’s coffin)
+ Usually good schedules and frequencies
- I find the international food to be not to my taste anymore (bland and way too exotic)
- Reaccomodation is difficult. They have great service and apps, but the next coach seat is not until 2 days later (Yes, that happened on a February domestic flight when the aircraft went tech). Delta flies their planes very, very full.
- Upgrades are near impossible. One recent domestic flight had almost 90 people on the upgrade list.
- Many times, their price is extremely uncompetitive (15% or more higher than others)
- Frequent flyer mile buying power seems to be the worst, sometimes to a laughable degree
x A flight attendant friend says Delta passengers are demanding (and drink like take 18 year olds with a fake ID! Her words, not mine
)
United
- Worst international biz seat, by far. Polaris is coming...someday, but until then
- Small regional jets seem to be on all the routes I fly.
+ International reach is good, and schedules actually work (I rarely see the 3-4 hour layover)
+ I’ve heard the Polaris lounges are a good step up, but I haven’t tried them yet.
- The employees throughout the system just don’t seem to care. Employees are very restricted and can only do what the computer tells them to do. I hear the winds are changing, but I have not experienced it yet.
x Another flight attendant friend says that United passengers have been beat into submission. They just sit in their seat and don’t say a word.
Southwest
- Only able to fly them a couple times a year, because of poor schedules and they just don’t go where I need to go.
All US carriers
- Half or more of their hubs are crappy facilities
- Gate lice and chaotic boarding are everywhere
- There will never, ever be enough overhead bin space
- Frequent flier programs are generally the same; the advantage of a program is dependent on the home airport.
x Monetization is coming. Upgrades are really a thing of the past. Airlines are finally figuring out how to sell first class vs. giving it away
- Always chasing a buck by nickel and diming the extras. The good ole days are gone, and travel is just a base commodity
If if you want to know how bad it really is on all the US carriers, go fly Qatar!
American
+ Flagship lounges are awesome
+ International business seats are generally better than the US competition
+ Upgrades and last minute first seats are easier for me, including switching flights
+ Fares are generally not excessive
- Seems to be a follower; little innovation
- Only spoke-to-hub
- International schedules (especially Asia) are very challenging. They only seem to want to work with just a few One World partners.
- Mileage awards are middle of the pack domestically, and very difficult or convoluted internationally. BA and Iberia with 6 hour layovers are sometimes the only options that are presented.
Delta
- Lounges at hub airports are WAY overcrowded and understaffed; no separate international lounge
+ Several point-to-point options
+ Generally mainline flights, and aircraft are in good shape
+ Good(but not great) international business seats, even if they do feel plastic (if you think the AA 767 seat is bad, try Delta’s coffin)
+ Usually good schedules and frequencies
- I find the international food to be not to my taste anymore (bland and way too exotic)
- Reaccomodation is difficult. They have great service and apps, but the next coach seat is not until 2 days later (Yes, that happened on a February domestic flight when the aircraft went tech). Delta flies their planes very, very full.
- Upgrades are near impossible. One recent domestic flight had almost 90 people on the upgrade list.
- Many times, their price is extremely uncompetitive (15% or more higher than others)
- Frequent flyer mile buying power seems to be the worst, sometimes to a laughable degree
x A flight attendant friend says Delta passengers are demanding (and drink like take 18 year olds with a fake ID! Her words, not mine
)United
- Worst international biz seat, by far. Polaris is coming...someday, but until then
- Small regional jets seem to be on all the routes I fly.
+ International reach is good, and schedules actually work (I rarely see the 3-4 hour layover)
+ I’ve heard the Polaris lounges are a good step up, but I haven’t tried them yet.
- The employees throughout the system just don’t seem to care. Employees are very restricted and can only do what the computer tells them to do. I hear the winds are changing, but I have not experienced it yet.
x Another flight attendant friend says that United passengers have been beat into submission. They just sit in their seat and don’t say a word.
Southwest
- Only able to fly them a couple times a year, because of poor schedules and they just don’t go where I need to go.
All US carriers
- Half or more of their hubs are crappy facilities
- Gate lice and chaotic boarding are everywhere
- There will never, ever be enough overhead bin space
- Frequent flier programs are generally the same; the advantage of a program is dependent on the home airport.
x Monetization is coming. Upgrades are really a thing of the past. Airlines are finally figuring out how to sell first class vs. giving it away
- Always chasing a buck by nickel and diming the extras. The good ole days are gone, and travel is just a base commodity
If if you want to know how bad it really is on all the US carriers, go fly Qatar!
Sep 11, 2018, 5:23 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
Maybe not now, but I remember the days are insanely cheap fares and triple mile bonuses that got many of us 4x miles and status quite cheaply
Sep 11, 2018, 6:07 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
Sep 11, 2018, 6:59 pm
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: GM on VX, UA, AA, HA, AS, SY; Budget Fastbreak
Posts: 27,597
anyway ymmv for any airline and flight, and happy flying everybody :-)
Sep 11, 2018, 7:53 pm
#82
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Sep 11, 2018, 8:17 pm
#83
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
No, that is the whole point of an app that tells you when boarding begins (and an airline that actually notifies you of updates to departure times in Irrops, which AA is definitely the absolute worst at).
Sep 11, 2018, 10:27 pm
#84
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: AA PP, OZ *G, Hyatt Expl, Marriott Gold, Lots of Ex-statuses
Posts: 318
Sep 11, 2018, 11:43 pm
#85
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: Avis President's Club, Global Entry, Hilton/Marriott Gold. No more DL/AA status.
Posts: 4,422
On this particular issue, I will defend AA. Project Oasis simply copies what DL is doing on their A320 series aircraft. See the DL forum for all the complaints about tight seating in Y and the tiny lavs. On these aircraft, they actually cut galley space in half in the Y cabin -- see all the DL FA complaints on various forums. AA is simply copying DL's lead here.
Sep 12, 2018, 4:47 am
#86
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
I guess whatever floats your boat.
Sep 12, 2018, 7:45 am
#89
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
Now we are numb/dumb to crap service from entry to exit.
You can only shovel so much sand against a tide of work rules disrespect (PDB) , general rules disrespect (bins), and general disrespect.
Last edited by Dallas49er; Sep 12, 2018 at 8:00 am
Sep 12, 2018, 8:33 am
#90
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,625
On this particular issue, I will defend AA. Project Oasis simply copies what DL is doing on their A320 series aircraft. See the DL forum for all the complaints about tight seating in Y and the tiny lavs. On these aircraft, they actually cut galley space in half in the Y cabin -- see all the DL FA complaints on various forums. AA is simply copying DL's lead here.
.