AA route changes announced 21 Aug 2018, inc cutting ORD-PVG
Aug 24, 2018, 11:29 am
#121
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: Bonvoy Amb; AA EXP
Posts: 1,136
I agree. Even though I hate the up the escalator, down the escalator between the 8 terminal sections, JFK has far more premium options and is far less crowded in the terminal versus CLT or PHL. In CLT and PHL I have to dodge tons of people and they always feel chaotic.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:59 pm
#122
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: SPG, Marriott, UA, AA, CX, SQ
Posts: 165
out of the 3 core Midwest legacy hubs (AA ORD UA ORD DL DTW), this change will make AA by far the weakest own-metal offering for TPAC
even if you expand that definition to account for nearby hubs with with similar TPAC pax flow, namely DL MSP and AC YYZ, the same applies
It’s truly mind-boggling that if after DL begins MSP ICN next April, just counting own metal flights, even DL MSP will have 4.7x the number of flights as AA ORD, let alone their juggernaut TPAC operation out of DTW.
call me a pessimist, but I have little hope that AA ORD NRT will actually survive even in the medium term.
even if you expand that definition to account for nearby hubs with with similar TPAC pax flow, namely DL MSP and AC YYZ, the same applies
It’s truly mind-boggling that if after DL begins MSP ICN next April, just counting own metal flights, even DL MSP will have 4.7x the number of flights as AA ORD, let alone their juggernaut TPAC operation out of DTW.
call me a pessimist, but I have little hope that AA ORD NRT will actually survive even in the medium term.
Aug 25, 2018, 2:03 pm
#123
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CLT
Programs: AA Platinum Pro, DL UA
Posts: 457
Totally agree! At least JAL can provide connecting traffic from NRT. Also, I thought the B788 would make any route, including thin routes, profitable.
Aug 25, 2018, 2:39 pm
#124
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Executive Club Silver. Back of the plane on everyone else.
Posts: 262
It's 3x week, which is appropriate for a leisure locale. The video accompanying the press release explained that they have used the data from their JV with BA to look at where people were connecting to in London. That is where they came up with the new routes (in addition to previous adds PRG and BUD). If enough people are double-connecting XXX-PHL/JFK/ORD-LHR-DBV they can provide a more attractive and more cost-effective connection XXX-PHL-DBV.
Aug 26, 2018, 7:35 am
#126
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
Looks like a number of the new flights are now bookable. I saw SAAver J availability for PHL-DBV. ORD-ATH is also loaded but no SAAver in Y or J when I checked.
Aug 26, 2018, 9:32 am
#127
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Aug 26, 2018, 11:33 am
#128
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
I would guess it's primarily data about MAD transfers. But they might also have data about the number of people who searched for US-DBV flights and then balked (i.e., didn't complete the transaction). Presumably because they didn't want the surface sector LHR/LGW.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:12 pm
#129
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
Intersting! I took another look and if you search PHL - DBV it shows no availability. If you check ORD - DBV there’s quite a bit routing through PHL.
Aug 26, 2018, 12:49 pm
#130
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: SPG, Marriott, UA, AA, CX, SQ
Posts: 165
Consider this sentence :
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.
Aug 26, 2018, 1:16 pm
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,231
Consider this sentence :
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.
Aug 26, 2018, 9:48 pm
#132
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
The LHR-PHX route has been loaded as AA 194/195 and is considerably earlier in the day than the BA flights which makes sense to not compete with the BA rotations. It departs LHR at 9am and arrives at PHX at 12:30 and then leaves PHX at 15:00 and arrives at LHR at 09:00. Neither flight is great for jet lag but could be very useful for connections further east such as flights to India.
Also based on the schedule it looks like the aircraft will position with another flight to London (eg a JFK rotation) and not have a positioning flight to PHX within the US.
Also based on the schedule it looks like the aircraft will position with another flight to London (eg a JFK rotation) and not have a positioning flight to PHX within the US.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:13 am
#133
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
Several times a year, return is ticketed to ORD or CLT or DFW via PHL (with PHL-XXX portion thrown away)
Aug 27, 2018, 1:20 am
#134
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
a) Moving MUC from PHL to CLT - they might have landed some corp contract
b) Surprised at PHL-BLQ (so close to VCE) wouldnt Milan have more demand?
c) cant see PHL-DBV lasting beyond one or two season trial balloon (there is no OW partner at DBV for further connection traffic)
Still no nordic countries? HEL may make sense with FinnAir connections Otherwise seasonal PHL-CPH-ARN-PHL make sense too
Wonder if PRG and BUD would make it in long run
b) Surprised at PHL-BLQ (so close to VCE) wouldnt Milan have more demand?
c) cant see PHL-DBV lasting beyond one or two season trial balloon (there is no OW partner at DBV for further connection traffic)
Still no nordic countries? HEL may make sense with FinnAir connections Otherwise seasonal PHL-CPH-ARN-PHL make sense too
Wonder if PRG and BUD would make it in long run
Aug 27, 2018, 3:20 am
#135
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AUS, GVA, and in between
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 178
Consider this sentence :
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.
“we are Avianca Brazil and let’s move most of our long haul routes from São Paulo, where’s there’s too much competition, to Belo Horizonte, where we have the fortress hub to ourselves. Don’t you know there are people in Brazil who live outside of SP ??”
sounds ridiculous right ?
Now substitute O6 for AA, GRU for JFK, and CNF for PHL, and that’s the gist of the defense we’re hearing.