EXP for 2019 going free agent - Warning YMMV
Aug 14, 2018, 2:18 pm
#46
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
It is interesting to read this as someone who is fairly young (early 30's). My knee-jerk reaction upon reading the original post was to wonder, not snidely, but genuinely, why someone so wealthy would have maintained a sole-source relationship with AA for so long anyhow. Most of the benefits of status are things that you get when you buy J or F, which this poster can clearly afford. If I could just buy J or F to wherever I wanted, my life would be a lot easier!
But then I realize that perhaps the real issue is beneath the surface - that OP has lived most of his life and professional career in an era where loyalty was in fact expected and cherished, and he is struggling with the relationship being unilaterally terminated, not on the material grounds of the benefits, but on the philosophical grounds of what the relationship represented. People of my age, we've never had that. We never experienced "service" or customer relationships the way that past generations have been able to, because by the time we came of age, everything had already been downsized, outsourced, leaned out, and automated. So, as a cultural phenomenon, or a representation of one, this is an interesting thread to read.
I wish OP the best of luck, but he needs neither luck nor my wishes!
But then I realize that perhaps the real issue is beneath the surface - that OP has lived most of his life and professional career in an era where loyalty was in fact expected and cherished, and he is struggling with the relationship being unilaterally terminated, not on the material grounds of the benefits, but on the philosophical grounds of what the relationship represented. People of my age, we've never had that. We never experienced "service" or customer relationships the way that past generations have been able to, because by the time we came of age, everything had already been downsized, outsourced, leaned out, and automated. So, as a cultural phenomenon, or a representation of one, this is an interesting thread to read.
I wish OP the best of luck, but he needs neither luck nor my wishes!
Well thought out, well constructed, and well presented. You see my point.
There is a Masters thesis in there somewhere. Not for me. 10th grade book report on "The Old Man and the Sea"-Old Cuban fisherman goes out to catch fish. Catches big one. Sharks eat fish. Old man goes home with nothing. Will do it again tomorrow. (25 words or less) Got a A/F.
Aug 14, 2018, 2:25 pm
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
"Qatar Airways CEO sorry for calling US air hostesses 'grandmothers'"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40593396
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40593396
Aug 14, 2018, 2:27 pm
#48
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: AA Executive Platinum; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,662
Will agree to disagree, if you choose.
Our tipping point: Flight home from CDG last week in paid J. Crap crew, with a crap attitude. Then we took off. Rushed meal service (Entree cart right behind salad cart, right behind drinks cart, all in a row all in the aisle at the same time. J crew clears at the speed of light, draws curtains, and when I go up and ask for refill of wine, ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "The curtains are there for reason!. We are on break!". Me: All I want is a refill of wine. Its been 30 minutes since anybody came through the cabin. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "You all are suppose to sleep on this flight. That's why I bid it." Me: Sorry to bother. May I have refill of wine, and my wife would like more hot water for her tea. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "OK, I'll be right there." Me: Its ok. I'll wait here. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "Oh ok" and gets up. Me: How about 2 hot waters for my wife and 2 wines for me, so we don't inconvenience you and your staff any more than we obviously have. We only have 6 hours to go. Then service went to ...
Our tipping point: Flight home from CDG last week in paid J. Crap crew, with a crap attitude. Then we took off. Rushed meal service (Entree cart right behind salad cart, right behind drinks cart, all in a row all in the aisle at the same time. J crew clears at the speed of light, draws curtains, and when I go up and ask for refill of wine, ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "The curtains are there for reason!. We are on break!". Me: All I want is a refill of wine. Its been 30 minutes since anybody came through the cabin. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "You all are suppose to sleep on this flight. That's why I bid it." Me: Sorry to bother. May I have refill of wine, and my wife would like more hot water for her tea. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "OK, I'll be right there." Me: Its ok. I'll wait here. ELDERLY BURNEDOUT FA says "Oh ok" and gets up. Me: How about 2 hot waters for my wife and 2 wines for me, so we don't inconvenience you and your staff any more than we obviously have. We only have 6 hours to go. Then service went to ...
Aug 14, 2018, 2:34 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
Of course it is unacceptable but nothing is going to come of reporting it since (1) AA can't do anything about it, and (2) no one at AA is going to care.
Even if the complaint gets sent down the chain, the FA will deny and the union slug bosses will defend her to the end. OP has wisely decided to move to greener pastures... like many of us.
Even if the complaint gets sent down the chain, the FA will deny and the union slug bosses will defend her to the end. OP has wisely decided to move to greener pastures... like many of us.
Last edited by SFO777; Aug 14, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Aug 14, 2018, 2:57 pm
#50
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
For Question #3 . Is it really loyalty on the part of either party?
Frequent flyers are in it for the benefits it brings. That is NOT loyalty As you have indicated you don't want to be EXP anymore because the level of benefits has been reduced.
That isn't really loyalty on your part, now is it?
The goal for the airlines, as a corporation, is the bottom line. It is called fiduciary responsibility.
The airline doesn't exist to benefit mankind. It exists to benefit its shareholders.
Frequent flyers are in it for the benefits it brings. That is NOT loyalty As you have indicated you don't want to be EXP anymore because the level of benefits has been reduced.
That isn't really loyalty on your part, now is it?
The goal for the airlines, as a corporation, is the bottom line. It is called fiduciary responsibility.
The airline doesn't exist to benefit mankind. It exists to benefit its shareholders.
AA made ExPlat much harder [for most] to achieve, and at the same time diminished the benefits fairly dramatically.
The flier has shown they are loyal by flying enough and spending enough to qualify for ExPlat. What loyalty has AA shown to its fliers in return?
Demand more--give less.
Sounds like a one-way street to me.
The vast majority of people who make these posts (on the AA forum, other airlines, blogs, etc) seem to be retired, have lifetime status, or otherwise have flown a lot of miles. Or they only fly international trips for leisure. I am in my early 30s, and I just am starting to travel a lot more for work. I could have 20 more years of frequent domestic travel. I've noticed the benefit of status (even mid level status) on my business travels and I am actually getting more serious about securing status on the airlines I fly. It's all about life circumstance.
Particularly irritating.
Even UA has separate 1K desks at major airports. Not AA.
Kind of shocking nobody has mentioned taking offense at your ageism. Good grief. Congrats on finishing what was an apparently successful career such that you can ride out the remainder of life with some nice trips served by "the elderly burnouts."
But YIKES the DYKWIA attitude.
But YIKES the DYKWIA attitude.
He is an ExPlat who is tired of AA demanding more for obtaining the status and receiving less in return. True.
He is tired of sub-par service in premium cabins filled with senior flight attendants who are frankly burnt out, but are who work those cabins due to their seniority and union rules. True.
If you haven't seen it, that tells me you are flying in the back of the bus (or not much at all).
Aug 14, 2018, 3:48 pm
#51
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The FT AA forum, until it no longer wants me.
Programs: CK or bust
Posts: 1,913
Aug 14, 2018, 4:17 pm
#52
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
Aug 14, 2018, 4:21 pm
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
It's not really ageist.
The fact is that AA's most premium routes -- are bid by those with the most seniority. If I was in their shoes, I'd be excited to work LAX-HKG three times a month, have AA travel privileges to use the other 20 days of free time, etc Alas, it's not so in most cases unfortunately.
The fact is that AA's most premium routes -- are bid by those with the most seniority. If I was in their shoes, I'd be excited to work LAX-HKG three times a month, have AA travel privileges to use the other 20 days of free time, etc Alas, it's not so in most cases unfortunately.
Aug 14, 2018, 4:43 pm
#54
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,586
Is that a serious question?- the 100% clearance record I have on long-haul Y-->J SWUs over the past 4 years as EXP
- Lounge access
- Phone lines that actually pick up and provide service during IROPs
- MCE
- Priority check-in lines and fast track security access (primarily beneficial outside of the U.S.)
- baggage fee and award fee waivers
- etc...
I get that people think status isn't as good as it used to be. Fine. I get that people think status is not useful for them. Fine. I get that people don't want to "chase" status. It never made sense to do that.
But to say there are no benefits. Come on.
Aug 14, 2018, 5:01 pm
#55
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 279
"ELDERLY burnouts, union protected burnouts and slugs, other burnouts, industrial strength attitudish, and people who just refuse to do their JOB, over and over, and over again" <- you sound nice
"Financial sales for 40+ years-Mr. Parker, I am revenue, and you are expense. Your model is flawed. Recognize this and Dare to be original" <- and pleasant to be around.
You should DEFINITELY take your business elsewhere. Far away preferably.
"Financial sales for 40+ years-Mr. Parker, I am revenue, and you are expense. Your model is flawed. Recognize this and Dare to be original" <- and pleasant to be around.
You should DEFINITELY take your business elsewhere. Far away preferably.
Aug 14, 2018, 5:06 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
"ELDERLY burnouts, union protected burnouts and slugs, other burnouts, industrial strength attitudish, and people who just refuse to do their JOB, over and over, and over again" <- you sound nice
"Financial sales for 40+ years-Mr. Parker, I am revenue, and you are expense. Your model is flawed. Recognize this and Dare to be original" <- and pleasant to be around.
You should DEFINITELY take your business elsewhere. Far away preferably.
"Financial sales for 40+ years-Mr. Parker, I am revenue, and you are expense. Your model is flawed. Recognize this and Dare to be original" <- and pleasant to be around.
You should DEFINITELY take your business elsewhere. Far away preferably.
Aug 14, 2018, 5:38 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,570
I left last year and status matched/challenged to UA 1K. May as well get the last little bit of value out of that last year of EXP....
Aug 14, 2018, 5:44 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
Aug 14, 2018, 6:32 pm
#60
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
The Zen Master lived on the path between two cities, one in the north and the other the south. Travelers would stop and stay at his house on their journey. One traveler coming from the north asked over dinner what the people were like in the south. The Zen Master asked him how he found the people in the north. “Terrible” was the reply. “Most unfriendly and unwelcoming people I’ve ever met. I couldn’t wait to leave” The Zen Master replied that he would find the people in the south much the same. Sometime later, another traveler, coming from the south, stayed with the Zen Master and asked what the people were like in the north. The Zen Master asked how he found the people in the south. “Fantastic, nicest people I’ve ever met. Made me feel like I was a part of their family and treated me so well. I hated to leave.” The Zen Master replied that he would find the people in the north much the same.
CX is not the CX of old either. BA: much worse than AA. I do like QR and OS as I think they still have their eye on the ball. But, I'm just a poor, retired ex-pat in BKK and need to pay less and get more than I'm paying for, which of course is all relative. AA still is that option, as I can always plan ahead and have used all my SWU's every year, finding the flights that are immediately available to UPG at booking, for the lowest price. Of course, I am always doing the HKG-LAX RT midweek, which is one of the easier UPG's, but I recently had a JFK-LHR UPG immediately as well, etc.
The rules may change but the game remains the same. Deal with it or don't. No one is forcing you to get on the plane.