Jul 10, 2018, 6:55 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
The new 737 MAX 8 is equipped with new Rockwell Collins Interior Design “advanced“ ultra slimline lavatories (29” in F, 24” in Y) (link). Under Project Oasis, 737-823 and two class Airbus A321 aircraft will be refitted with these lavatories and the Rockwell Collins Meridian ultra slimline seats.
Airlines must comply with the Air Carrier Access Act (not the Americans with Disabilities Act), which states single aisle aircraft are not required to have ACAA compliant accessible lavatories.
CFR › Title 14 › Chapter II › Subchapter D › Part 382 › Subpart E › Section 382.63 (link)
§ 382.63 What are the requirements for accessible lavatories?
(a) As a carrier, you must ensure that aircraft with more than one aisle in which lavatories are provided shall include at least one accessible lavatory.
(1) The accessible lavatory must permit a qualified individual with a disability to enter, maneuver within as necessary to use all lavatory facilities, and leave, by means of the aircraft's on-board wheelchair.
(2) The accessible lavatory must afford privacy to persons using the on-board wheelchair equivalent to that afforded ambulatory users.
(3) The lavatory shall provide door locks, accessible call buttons, grab bars, faucets and other controls, and dispensers usable by qualified individuals with a disability, including wheelchair users and persons with manual impairments.
(b) With respect to aircraft with only one aisle in which lavatories are provided, you may, but are not required to, provide an accessible lavatory.
Airlines must comply with the Air Carrier Access Act (not the Americans with Disabilities Act), which states single aisle aircraft are not required to have ACAA compliant accessible lavatories.
CFR › Title 14 › Chapter II › Subchapter D › Part 382 › Subpart E › Section 382.63 (link)
§ 382.63 What are the requirements for accessible lavatories?
(a) As a carrier, you must ensure that aircraft with more than one aisle in which lavatories are provided shall include at least one accessible lavatory.
(1) The accessible lavatory must permit a qualified individual with a disability to enter, maneuver within as necessary to use all lavatory facilities, and leave, by means of the aircraft's on-board wheelchair.
(2) The accessible lavatory must afford privacy to persons using the on-board wheelchair equivalent to that afforded ambulatory users.
(3) The lavatory shall provide door locks, accessible call buttons, grab bars, faucets and other controls, and dispensers usable by qualified individuals with a disability, including wheelchair users and persons with manual impairments.
(b) With respect to aircraft with only one aisle in which lavatories are provided, you may, but are not required to, provide an accessible lavatory.
Is the Oasis / MAX lavatory Air Carrier Access Act / ACA compliant?
Jul 11, 2018, 9:25 pm
#16
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AA thinks it's in an era where compliance alone is good enough for the people in back. AA configures Max 8s with 172 seats; there's a Max 8 version with additional exits that is certified for 200. Things can get much, much worse.
If there is a new lav size rule that goes into effect surely carriers will negotiate a generous transition period and then rip out a few seats where required. Until then...
If there is a new lav size rule that goes into effect surely carriers will negotiate a generous transition period and then rip out a few seats where required. Until then...
-Paul
Jul 11, 2018, 9:49 pm
#17
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Yes, If the DOT issues new guidelines airlines will have time to comply and refit their aircraft, The ADA law is almost 30 years old now, a lot has changed since then and laws are meant to be amended or changed to better suit the times. That's why the ADA act was passed and included "Compliance Committee's" to make adjustments. I usually sit in F when flying Domestic and the forward lav in any 737 is not at all roomier compared to what's in the back. In Fact it's worse for tall people since the curvature of the fuselage makes a tall person immediately tilt their head when entering. We live in a world where the average male is not 5'10" and 175lbs. I've noticed on International routes that both the A350 and 787 have tiny bathrooms compared to 777's. their tiny but more roomier than the 737's.
-Paul
-Paul
Jul 12, 2018, 2:57 pm
#19
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Has anybody (i.e.the ACLU) challenged this in court? It is a good point that the OP makes.
-Paul
Jul 12, 2018, 5:57 pm
#21
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Yes Really-
Forbes is not really know as an anti-corporate news outlet and here is what they think.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielr.../#124c5e105fc2
Forbes is not really know as an anti-corporate news outlet and here is what they think.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielr.../#124c5e105fc2
Jul 12, 2018, 6:50 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Yes Really-
Forbes is not really know as an anti-corporate news outlet and here is what they think.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielr.../#124c5e105fc2
Forbes is not really know as an anti-corporate news outlet and here is what they think.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielr.../#124c5e105fc2
And nothing changes the fact that AA is violating no existing law, certification requirement, or regulation with these lavs. Which supposedly was the pretext for the OP to start this thread.
Jan 2, 2021, 12:48 am
#23
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Jan 2, 2021, 7:53 am
#24
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The vast majority of US domestic flying is on narrowbody aircraft, which do not require an accessible lavatory under the ACAA. I hope that some point in the next few years, Americans realize that "if you're not able to use what's provided, just plan to not use the lavatory for 5+ hours" is an unreasonable request for a lot of people.
Jan 2, 2021, 8:09 am
#25
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The vast majority of US domestic flying is on narrowbody aircraft, which do not require an accessible lavatory under the ACAA. I hope that some point in the next few years, Americans realize that "if you're not able to use what's provided, just plan to not use the lavatory for 5+ hours" is an unreasonable request for a lot of people.
Apr 8, 2021, 7:11 pm
#26
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The oasis lav
Sitting in 8F today normally I would just use the F lav but it was busy so I trekked all the way back. What the foxtrot was AA thinking when they installed these bathrooms? Yeah I know an extra row of two of seats but these lavs are almost unusable due to their tiny size. Washing your hands will immediately put water all over the place. There is barely enough room to move around. I can’t imagine how POS can effectively use this lav.
Apr 9, 2021, 6:51 am
#27
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This isn't an issue related to AA-several airlines have chosen this specific type of lavatory for their 737 MAX fleet/737 retrofits. I am not sure if it is the same lavatory (I think it might be) but DL also installed a similar lavatory in the rear of their Airbus narrow body fleet.
AA added a feature to the water spigot to cut down on the spray effect.
AA added a feature to the water spigot to cut down on the spray effect.
Apr 9, 2021, 7:06 am
#28
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AA just wants to give fliers of its 737 MAX the same experience they get at their CLT terminal latrines..... At least only one person can use the latrine at a time on the 737 MAX so nobody can urinate on your shoes, which can easily happen at a urinal at CLT from the guy shoulder to shoulder next to you.
Apr 9, 2021, 9:02 am
#29
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I used the aft lav on my last flight and found it to be better than the F lav. Yes, it's narrow. But at least I can stand up and not hunch over while doing my business!
I miss the MD-80 F lav...
I miss the MD-80 F lav...