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Can AA get any worse? (Charging nonstatus pax $75 standby complaint)

Can AA get any worse? (Charging nonstatus pax $75 standby complaint)

Old Jun 18, 2018, 4:05 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by bse118
And I haven't ever paid a checked baggage fee on AA - elite status easily takes care of that.
That's nice, but I have a lot of friends and family who aren't country bumpkins when it comes to flying on a plane, but they will NEVER hit even 25k a year (let alone whatever spend AA wants these days), and the days of lifetime elite for AA CC spend are long gone. I wouldn't tell them to fly AA over WN on a dare. If you fly 5-10 times a year, 1000-1500 miles round trip each time, domestic flights only, you're not an infrequent flyer. But you're sure not likely to be hitting any elite status. That description fits a TON of people.

Originally Posted by bse118
Never mind that AA (and DL and UA) actually fly (or have partners that fly) to where I need to go.
Sure. Nobody is saying that you can use WN to fly to Europe. But half of the USA doesn't have a passport. Frequent international travel is more rare than you would think from reading FT trip reports about Bali. And there are folks who happily free agent their travel, internationally AND domestically, and choose WN for some pretty basic reasons (if you're in CA and do a ton of shorthaul, WN's schedule and destination list creams everyone else, for instance... and frequency/nonstop destination often wins over shiny DYWKIA card).

Originally Posted by bse118
WN's got it's niche. But let's not pretend it's a full service airline.
700+ planes is a heck of a "niche". And a lot of the "service" full service airlines offer are things people are happy to cast aside to save money or gain convenience in other ways. Let's see, do I want lounge access the one time in 18 months I fly overseas, assuming that I did it in coach, and thus send all my business to AA? Or do I want to be able to cancel/change my domestic ticket and have the funds 100% available for future use for up to a year, and send some flights to WN?

Originally Posted by Antarius
Part of it is WN and people flying WN actually FOLLOW the process. AA's process is simple, but apparently it hasn't been beaten into the passengers yet that it needs to be followed.
One would think that a process that people actually can follow and is consistently followed is probably a well designed one. If you need to beat things into people's heads to make it work, you probably have already failed to design your process correctly. WN's process works; I have a number, I know where I stand in the line to get on the plane, i don't have to go up into the line until the sign says the number on it.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jun 18, 2018 at 4:12 pm
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 5:16 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by MarkOK
I laughed harder than I should at this. I generally agree on all accounts of 'substandards', though WN is better than Spirit still (I cringe whenever I must walk past those gates). However, I come from a demographic background where the WN cult thrives Every family member I know on both my side and my wife's side that flies at all loves WN (aka. middle class flyers with zero business travel and just enough income to fly once or twice a year for a vacation).

And the success of the WN brand is really actually simple:
1. They don't fly enough for a rewards program to mean anything beyond slow points accumulation and a rare burn, if even that (most don't open rewards programs).
2. Southwest gives them free checked bags. Period. They know that American and anyone else will charge them a hefty fee for a first bag and an exhorbitant fee for any second bag. Doing things like holding a 95$ CC or getting status is moot when you only fly 1 or 2 a year. For most people, this is a real price difference that matters, but for all, they hate the baggage fees mostly on a philosophical ground.
3. Southwest generally DOES fly decent routes where they are going (for many, that means nothing more than direct flights to Las Vegas and Orlando)
4. They feel better treated by the boarding process. Nothing makes you feel valued waiting to board in Group 8 (I've done it many times).
Several of my friends are WN loyalists. They fly plenty for work and have companion pass. Which they use twice a month for friends and SOs. If you aren't a big longhaul traveler and aren't big on longhaul J for the few trips they do take, the WN rewards program is perfect.

WN serves a market and does so very well. I prefer upgrades and international J. Others prefer weekend trips. YMMV
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 5:17 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by MarkOK
3. Southwest generally DOES fly decent routes where they are going (for many, that means nothing more than direct flights to Las Vegas and Orlando)
Oh, come now: Southwest flies ~3,000 mainline flights a day that don't go to Orlando or Las Vegas.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 5:18 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by writerguyfl
Not sure that analogy works, as the hotel would incur additional costs when placing people on a club level floor. But, an upgrade to a premium view (ocean, park, etc) wouldn't cost the hotel anything. Maybe that's a better analogy. Personally, I'd never complain that a hotel chain was horrible because they didn't give someone that isn't even an occasional guest something for like that for free.

Some concept holds for car rentals. I wouldn't expect free upgrades from economy to a premium cars for everyone just because those premium vehicles aren't reserved.
fair enough. I figured given the club is staffed and food prepared, the incremental cost is minimal for 50 people vs 5. But yes, they do not invariably give people changes just because capacity is available.

Wrt the car example, if the car is reserved by you for a 6 pm rental start and you show up at 10 am, you will possibly pay for more time even if the car is not used in between 10 am and your scheduled pickup.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 5:30 pm
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Antarius
Several of my friends are WN loyalists. They fly plenty for work and have companion pass. Which they use twice a month for friends and SOs. If you aren't a big longhaul traveler and aren't big on longhaul J for the few trips they do take, the WN rewards program is perfect.
Or if you refuse to play upgrade lottery (can't or won't fly the amount required to really "win" it on one legacy airline), WN for domestic, OAL in paid/award J/F longhaul across oceans (basically, buy what you want and look for mileage/paid airfare sales) is STILL a viable option. Most of the benefits of status simply replicate what you get in paid or award J/F (lounge access, extra baggage, DYWKIA boarding/checkin, etc.) if you're flying in Y. So why tie yourself into knots for loyalty if you could just buy what works best for you?

Yeah, you lose DYKWIA IROPS handling maybe if you bought AV/AA/UA/AS miles (or burned MR/UR/TY points) to cash that award in J/F, and OK, you're not getting F lounges/boarding/bennies if you're in J, but that's about it. I totally get that someone who's putting in 100k+ a year and flies across oceans regularly is likely to want something other than WN (since, well, they don't fly across oceans), but for domestic hops it makes a lot of sense in the right situation.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 6:20 pm
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
Oh, come now: Southwest flies ~3,000 mainline flights a day that don't go to Orlando or Las Vegas.
Sure, sure, I didn't mean to suggest Southwest doesn't fly elsewhere. I am speaking of people I know. Las Vegas and Orlando are key 'vacation' destinations and from middle of the country non-hub cities, Southwest offers BETTER routes to those destinations than any legacy carrier does . For my family members (that all fly southwest most of the time), they are headed either to Las Vegas or Orlando about 75% of the time. The other times, they are going to other cities that Southwest flies to as well (Denver, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles).

The Legacies are great for a couple of reasons (beyond their ever devaluating frequent flyer programs) - international links, extensive small-airport connectivity through hubs (as is my case), and high frequency of flights between their hubs and major US cities for business travelers that care about flight times as much as flight days. None of these matter for someone living in Tulsa Oklahoma or Kansas City Missouri (etc) and primarily looking to go to Vegas, Disney World, Disney Land, Ski trip in Colorado, or catch a cruise from Galveston TX for a week. In other words, for business travel, Southwest may have 'odd connections', but for the typical Southwest customer I know, the legacies are the ones with unnecessary connections.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 6:42 pm
  #52  
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This thread is about a complaint AA charges non-status passengers $75 to stand by the for an earlier flight the same day.

Screed with offensive characterizations used to describe passengers on another autlinebhas no place in this forum; it is unwelcoming, against the Rules, and will be deleted. Some replies to previouslyndeleted posts have gone as well.

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Old Jun 18, 2018, 7:15 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by milesandmoremiles
So lets see here, unless you have higher level elite status in some cases, Delta and United charge similar fees to go confirmed on earlier flights and Southwest requires an upfare. So whats the problem?!?!
You don't think it's a problem that the airline industry has become a race to the bottom?

I have *G status at UA, so I don't pay standby fees, but I'd be pissed if they did charge me. Prioritize by status? Okay sure. But outright charging for it is just a pure money grab, as it frees up seats on those later flights that someone else can then book.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 7:24 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by STS-134
I have *G status at UA, so I don't pay standby fees, but I'd be pissed if they did charge me. Prioritize by status? Okay sure. But outright charging for it is just a pure money grab, as it frees up seats on those later flights that someone else can then book.
Rather than charge for it, would it be better to just not allow it at all?

There are plenty of markets where no such offering exists - want day of travel flexibility and need to have purchased a ticket that allows it as part of fare rules

You might as well argue that charging for tickets in the 1st place is a money grab

You may feel that you are doing the airline a favour by offering to travel earlier, however that doesn't mean that the airline sees it as you doing a favour vs you getting something you would like
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 7:34 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by STS-134
I have *G status at UA, so I don't pay standby fees, but I'd be pissed if they did charge me. Prioritize by status? Okay sure. But outright charging for it is just a pure money grab, as it frees up seats on those later flights that someone else can then book.
Of course it's a money grab. The whole thing is a money grab. It's called a for-profit business. Why is that so surprising to so many people?

If they know they will NEED the seats later in the day (because of some IRROPs or pending weather or whatever), there's a good chance they will waive the standby fees. But they're not going to do it because YOU think someone else will book your vacated seat at a last-minute sky-high fare (which by the way, isn't even a given these days).
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 7:36 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR
As they explained it, it was a conditional charge. If I got on, I paid the $75 and if I didn't, I wouldn't get charged. It was obvious from the loads on ExpertFlyer that I would get on. However, the $75 charge showed up on my Amex immediately (I get Amex alerts on my phone.)
FWIW, the alert was for the $75 authorization (shows as a "pending charge" online). If you cleared, then DL puts the charge through, and it posts to your account a day or two later. If you don't clear, they don't put the charge through and the authorization drops off a couple of days later.

Hotels and rental car agencies do the same thing. Similar to a restaurant - the authorization is for the pre-tip amount.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 7:53 pm
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Originally Posted by SAN_Finn
Yes
Agreed. It can get worse for sure, which is not to say it isn't bad now.
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 8:26 pm
  #58  
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Actually, it is not Standby.. It is Same Day Confirmed Flight Change and if even as a Platinum elite, I would have to pay for it
That is different than standby, which elites get for free, but is not a guaranteed SDFC means you can make the change in advance.
As a non-elite, you are eligible for SDFC, but not "standby". That said, the fee has been around for years and other US domestic carriers are similar.
Edit: I can see that the $75 in this case was what the agent might have called standby, but in any case, standby is not free for non-elites.
You are being charged a fee for convenience, for the reason is AA knows people will pay it. It isn't much different than other fees AA has. I am considering a change to my Alaska Airlines trip, but AS will charge the person going with me $125 plus the fare difference, yet, I am still considering it. AS will charge me only the increase in fare, about $40 for that segment,because I have MVP Gold Status. Airlines charge for better seats for non-elites. It doesn't cost them extra to provide them, but charges a fee because some people will pay it.

Last edited by mvoight; Jun 18, 2018 at 8:35 pm
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 8:44 pm
  #59  
 
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Try flying almost anywhere OTHER than the USA. Ask here in Australia if you can get on the earlier flight and unless the airline has concerns about weather/operational problems later (in which case they likely would have made the offer at check in) you won't be asked to pay $75...You will be told "Your ticket doesn't allow that".
Especially as a non status pax which was the OP's position.... wonder what the OP would say about QANTAS after experiencing that?

Interesting that the defence of WN ended up including the benefits of A-List etc...… Shouldn't the comparison have REMAINED with "no status"?
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Old Jun 18, 2018, 8:55 pm
  #60  
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
If they know they will NEED the seats later in the day (because of some IRROPs or pending weather or whatever), there's a good chance they will waive the standby fees. But they're not going to do it because YOU think someone else will book your vacated seat at a last-minute sky-high fare (which by the way, isn't even a given these days).
this. If AA needs or anticipates needing the later flight they may proactively move you or be willing. The likely situation is the early flight and later one are both Y7+ which means barring a blue moon, the later flight is available for last minute bookings.

Those who want to go with pay 75 or wait. This applies to non elites only too.

also I booked IAH-DFW-SFO 2 days ago for yesterday for 78 USD. could not believe it.
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