Aggressive, Vulgar Behavior from Uniformed Non-AA Pilot Passenger
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,122
No different than a window shade. I always fly window and like to keep it open. Some times the pax next to me asks me to lower it as it is causing glare on their screen or whatever. I have no issues with the request or usually complying. But being rude, reaching over me when I am awake etc. not acceptable.
Politeness goes a long way. Still.
#77
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
2230 is not 'late evening'. It's night time. You really shouldn't have been talking, but the pilot's behaviour was not appropriate. He probably should have said: "excuse me, it's late, we'd all like to get some sleep, maybe you can continue your conversation at the other end."
Not taking a side on the etiquette question (obv the pilot's actions were outrageous regardless), but when did this flight land local time? Shortly after midnight, or at dawn?
To me, this is an important point to consider before passing judgement on the acceptability/lack thereof of talking during the flight.
To me, this is an important point to consider before passing judgement on the acceptability/lack thereof of talking during the flight.
Agree....some people are traveling on different time zones and others need/want to read or do work. Asking for lights to go off is ridiculous.
My experience is that the FA chatter disturbs my sleep more than any other talking done by passengers. I put in earplugs and deal.
My experience is that the FA chatter disturbs my sleep more than any other talking done by passengers. I put in earplugs and deal.
Pilot was rude. However, was the conversation so important that it couldn't be completed after landing or the next day? You should be aware of your surroundings, particularly if you are the only group talking on a late night flight where everyone was chilling. Also, you may not think you were loud, but my wife always asks me to talk more softly when I think I'm speaking quietly.
Someone that exhausted would have no problem sleeping in a room with quiet conversation.
My $0.02 worth. The pilot was unprofessional and his behavior should not be condoned. It was good that he was reported. The pilot should have merely alerted you to the fact that your conversation was loud enough to bother him and asked nicely for the conversation to be toned down.
That said, it was clear that the OP's conversation was bothering someone in the cabin yet they continued the conversation at the same loudness. What was the thought there? They were entitled to have conversations at night even though it was bothering others? Where's the consideration for others? What would the OP have done if the pilot asked nicely? Responded "Sorry, we have the right to keep others from sleeping"?
That said, it was clear that the OP's conversation was bothering someone in the cabin yet they continued the conversation at the same loudness. What was the thought there? They were entitled to have conversations at night even though it was bothering others? Where's the consideration for others? What would the OP have done if the pilot asked nicely? Responded "Sorry, we have the right to keep others from sleeping"?
As I said earlier, flights have been diverted for much less.
#78
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
#79
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, Owner of 2,000 TWA shares
Posts: 812
No.Not at all. I clearly stated I thought it was rude and vulgar. The deadhead was wrong to behave the way he did but based on the information supplied he was by no means threatening or aggressive. Maybe my dictionary is outdated.
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,571
yes I agree with you. Most people would get on with life without making any comment or show their displeasure. It would be naive for the OP to believe no one else was disturbed. It is entirely possible that other disturbed passenger decided to ignore like most people do. For one, I know I would not do anything in such circumstances but feel disgusted with the behavior. I mean, the poster is colleague with his or her travel companion, they have chances to discuss whatever they are talking in company cafeteria or conference rooms.
#81
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,919
Library silence as well as sensory deprivation are new rules that I am learning for American red-eyes. Happy I stumbled on this thread to educate me. Are the lights sleepers and photo-sensitive people paying more than me? /s
#82
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
#83
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,590
#84
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,590
The fact is that Americans, especially American women, are conditioned to speak more loudly than some other nationals. It's not a generalization, but a fact. It starts in high school, where you need to put an edge on your tone in order to be heard in the crowd. (This is a musician speaking.) Most Americans are not aware that they are doing it.
#85
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
"Alright, new rule. When I'm on a night-based schedule and need sleep during the day, I demand silence, absence of illuminated reading lights and all window shades closed when I take a lunchtime flight. That is, after all, my 'late night.'"
That is the main counter-argument being made. See how preposterous that sounds?
That is the main counter-argument being made. See how preposterous that sounds?
#86
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: AA Executive Platinum; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,660
The thread seems to be devolving.
Anyway, I believe the deadheading pilot was in the wrong.
I believe the two conversing were okay, assuming the decibel level was not excessive.
Anyway, I believe the deadheading pilot was in the wrong.
I believe the two conversing were okay, assuming the decibel level was not excessive.
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,122
#88
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
It comforts us to think that pilots are always sane, stable people. They are NOT always. I know some personally and know how they are, and I have experienced behavior I found concerning more than once from them.
The worst was in the early 2000s' An LH pilot at FRA. Came storming into the gate absolutely FURIOUS and screaming at the gate crew. He even started punching walls and knocking over stancheons. Heads down jetway, yelling all the while with nobody but shocked passengers looking on, and then proceeds to "fly angry"...taxi was scary fast, dipping wings on the turns, us rolling like pax in a car. Braking hard enough to throw us forward during the taxi also. Seemed like we were flying fast too..fire walled take off even though the flight was short (likely less fuel) and only about half full, and a high rate, nose down descent with the spoilers up most the of the way down, and then another "dukes of hazzard" taxi experience to the gate.
It was scary.
The worst was in the early 2000s' An LH pilot at FRA. Came storming into the gate absolutely FURIOUS and screaming at the gate crew. He even started punching walls and knocking over stancheons. Heads down jetway, yelling all the while with nobody but shocked passengers looking on, and then proceeds to "fly angry"...taxi was scary fast, dipping wings on the turns, us rolling like pax in a car. Braking hard enough to throw us forward during the taxi also. Seemed like we were flying fast too..fire walled take off even though the flight was short (likely less fuel) and only about half full, and a high rate, nose down descent with the spoilers up most the of the way down, and then another "dukes of hazzard" taxi experience to the gate.
It was scary.
#89
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IND/NYC/MEX
Programs: AA EXP BA Bronze SPG Gold HH GLD Hyatt GLB
Posts: 1,131
First, this wasn't a redeye. It was a late midcon.
I'm shocked at the number of people that must travel in complete silence. If it's really that much of an issue for you, travel with earplugs or a noise cancelling headset (or fly private or at a different time). If someone is that loud, ask them to please quiet down and go from there. I plan on talking all I want on the flight, especially when with friends.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I do agree about the light on redeyes; keep it off (I guess I am more light sensitive).
I'm shocked at the number of people that must travel in complete silence. If it's really that much of an issue for you, travel with earplugs or a noise cancelling headset (or fly private or at a different time). If someone is that loud, ask them to please quiet down and go from there. I plan on talking all I want on the flight, especially when with friends.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I do agree about the light on redeyes; keep it off (I guess I am more light sensitive).
#90
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 10 months VLC, 2 months everywhere else
Programs: *A
Posts: 3,770
110K butt-in-seat miles so far this year, I live in Europe with residences in the USA and Central Asia. So no, I'm not going to travel more.
<redacted>
And no, you don't tip in Europe.
<redacted>
And no, you don't tip in Europe.
Last edited by JDiver; Jun 8, 2018 at 3:44 pm Reason: Redacted - Rules https://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#abusivedisruptive