Revenue management JFK-LAX/SFO nonstops

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Old Mar 17, 18, 10:31 am
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Revenue management JFK-LAX/SFO nonstops

As a weekly flier on AA's JFK-LAX/SFO transcons I had the following observations/questions about their yield management:
  • AA seems to upgrade Y -> J to J2 availability the day before the flight it seems, based on my experiences. This makes it difficult to change flights when ticketed in J or to be rebooked on a different flight during irrops.
  • Why doesn't AA oversell J into the F cabin? Flights are frequently F7AXJ0. This would seem to be an additional revenue opportunity
  • As noted anecdotally here F can fill up with non-revs/mileage tickets rather than revenue passengers. Couldn't AA offer complimentary upgrades from J to F for CKs first?
  • AA could sell more I tickets to compete with B6, which generally has lower fares and a superior Mint product

Last edited by Allusha; Mar 17, 18 at 12:13 pm
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Old Mar 17, 18, 10:38 am
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All good points, but why spoil the employee shuttle at the pointy end of the plane?
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Old Mar 17, 18, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by Allusha View Post
As a weekly flier on AA's JFK-LAX/SFO transcons I had the following observations/questions about their yield management:
  • AA seems to upgrade Y -> J to J2 availability the day before the flight it seems, based on my experiences. This makes it difficult to change flights when ticketed in J or to be rebooked on a different flight during irrops.
  • Why doesn't AA oversell J into the F cabin? Flights are frequently F7AXJ0. This would seem to be an additional revenue opportunity
  • As noted anecdotally here F can fill up with non-revs/mileage tickets rather than revenue passengers. Couldn't AA offer complimentary upgrades from J to F for CKs first?
<bolding mine>

Why? Aren't there enough perks for CK's already?

For some of us, the preferred way to fly in the F cabin is by using Business Extra upgrades or award redemptions. Those empty F seats provide us the opportunity to exercise that strategy.

In fact, I'm thankful that the ability to get into the F cabin exists. It's quiet and peaceful, and you have the opportunity to enjoy FFD at the LAX and JFK airports. The current combination of 3-cabin aircraft and superior lounges makes AA very attractive to some of us that travel transcontinental and like to have options for getting into the very front of the plane. YMMV.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 11:43 am
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Originally Posted by mizzou miles View Post
All good points, but why spoil the employee shuttle at the pointy end of the plane?
LOL. Indeed.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 11:48 am
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Originally Posted by Allusha View Post
  • As noted anecdotally here F can fill up with non-revs/mileage tickets rather than revenue passengers. Couldn't AA offer complimentary upgrades from J to F for CKs first?
Don't forget that you also have international connections where a late upgrade is going to someone flying XXX/JFK/SFO on a very high value J ticket.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 2:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Allusha View Post
  • AA seems to upgrade Y -> J to J2 availability the day before the flight it seems, based on my experiences.
That's directly contrary to my experience on any LAX/JFK flights except on Saturdays (I can't really address SFO/JFK) . I am an EXP with 25-30k in annual spend and am almost always at the top of upgrade lists. Except for a couple of trips on Saturdays, I haven't cleared before the gate on any of these flights even though I am usually 1 or 2 on the list. I'll watch the flights on EF and they'll go from J7 to J0/1/2 or from J1 to J5 within two hours of the flight. I think there are a lot of J fliers (and my impression is many with corporate contracts that permit this) on this route who change or buy their tickets at the last minute and that RM limits pre-gate upgrades.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Allusha View Post
...questions about their yield management.
If you are really talking about revenue management, i.e. most profit for AA and not about convenient and preference of pasdengers, then possible that better option is to get rid of F on JFK-LAX/SFO.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 2:54 pm
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Originally Posted by AlwaysAisle View Post
If you are really talking about revenue management, i.e. most profit for AA and not about convenient and preference of pasdengers, then possible that better option is to get rid of F on JFK-LAX/SFO.
I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 3:05 pm
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
Even if all that's true, AA doesn't seem to sell a lot of those F seats, and over the years the premium for F seems to be really small most of the time I look at it (every once in a while I see F cheaper than J). Even if there was an argument to keep F, cutting that cabin down to 4 or 6 seats and replacing them with more business class seats would seem to be a pretty big win for AA.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 4:39 pm
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Originally Posted by jcatman View Post
Why? Aren't there enough perks for CK's already?
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.

I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 5:15 pm
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
I read something about that every once in a while. However, I understand that there are a number of corporate contracts in the entertainment industry that provide for F on a three class plane. Additionally, there are some executives that have clauses in their employment contracts providing for this.
Yes there are Hollywood contract but that was modified few years ago during union contract negotiations. Yes, also there are corporate executives, but how may are there out there? Each company has only handful, not like bottom employees. And those executives travel every single day? Do they travel only on NYC-LA/SF and they do not travel to Europe, Middle East, Far East?

AA has 12 JFK-LAX flights daily with 10 F seats each. Which means 120 F seats daily. How many of those seats everyday are occupied with paid first class fare? I heard argument about corporate executive, but likely that alone is not enough to fill 120 seats every single day. There are only finite number of corporate executives out there, and they do not travel every single day, and they travel all over the world, not only on NYC-LA/SF.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 5:36 pm
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I say bump J to F for CK/Full-Fare J. I've had way too many terrible F experiences with lazy/entitled non-revs.

Out of eight F SFO/LAX-JFK flights this calendar year, 7 of 8 flights had <3 pax booked in F (whether it was paid, miles, upgrade, not sure) and the rest filled with non-rev. Only one flight was 8/10 filled with rev pax and that was a Monday afternoon JFK-SFO.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 5:57 pm
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Originally Posted by arlflyer View Post
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.

I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
As a fellow Plebeian flyer, may I direct you to the following link:

AA Concierge Key / ConciergeKey / CK members (master thread)

....which details significant "fluff" for CKs. Further details were probably available at the "March Mingle".
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Old Mar 17, 18, 6:02 pm
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Originally Posted by jcatman View Post
As a fellow Plebeian flyer, may I direct you to the following link:

AA Concierge Key / ConciergeKey / CK members (master thread)

....which details significant "fluff" for CKs. Further details were probably available at the "March Mingle".
Yeah, have read the thread. I'd take a transcon F upgrade over a meet-and-greet any day, but that's just me.
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Old Mar 17, 18, 6:24 pm
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Originally Posted by arlflyer View Post
As someone who has never been CK, will not be CK in the foreseeable future, and has no close connections to anyone who is a CK...I would say, uh, not really. In my understanding, the benefits that CKs get are mostly fluff: hand-holding, SWUs that they probably can't use, and IRROPs treatment. As a mere peasant who is supposed to be in awe of the aspirational CK benefits, whenever I see them written about, they strike me as notably underwhelming.

I'd think that bumping customers who spend a gajillion dollars with AA up into unsold, unused F seats at the expense of some award tickets would be, saying this as someone at whose expense the loss of said award seats is likely to come, a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Right. Or AA could take the miles off their books instead. #themoreyouknow
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