Non-Stop Screaming/Crying Infant on International Flight
#61
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A Moderator colleague already posted as follows, but unfortunately the post was overlooked or ignored.
If you haven't read the rules in a while, now would be a great time to acquaint yourself with them:
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I'll focus on this one:
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Thanks.
JDiver
If you haven't read the rules in a while, now would be a great time to acquaint yourself with them:
https://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php
I'll focus on this one:
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 When you believe someone has violated the rules.
Thanks.
JDiver
#63
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 758
I would expect the airline to give you a token number of miles maybe 10,000 as a gesture of good will
I find most babies get on and go to sleep and aren’t much of a bother. But you occasionally get a crier. A crier with attentive parents tends to go to sleep a crier with parents not paying attention is every passengers worst nightmare on a long flight. I think a quiet zone would be nice but I sit in the quiet zone all sorts of places only to listen to ludicrous cellphone conversations so I am not sure that inconsiderate un self aware types will really understand that quiet zones don’t mean only they talk when they feel like it
i don’t blame you for being unhappy but it is the luck of the draw. If there was an unruly adult and the airline did not intercede you would have a bigger complaint. Me I would be mad but then move on to what I can control pretty quickly
I find most babies get on and go to sleep and aren’t much of a bother. But you occasionally get a crier. A crier with attentive parents tends to go to sleep a crier with parents not paying attention is every passengers worst nightmare on a long flight. I think a quiet zone would be nice but I sit in the quiet zone all sorts of places only to listen to ludicrous cellphone conversations so I am not sure that inconsiderate un self aware types will really understand that quiet zones don’t mean only they talk when they feel like it
i don’t blame you for being unhappy but it is the luck of the draw. If there was an unruly adult and the airline did not intercede you would have a bigger complaint. Me I would be mad but then move on to what I can control pretty quickly
#64
Join Date: May 2012
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There is no dispute that it is normal for a small child to cry during descent and ascent because of the blocking of ears. We all know that the crying is good because it helps equalize the air pressure. However, this should not go beyond 10-15 minutes. We also know that children cry when they are scared, or tired or when the diaper is full or when they are hungry. There are easy fixes which achieve peace relatively quickly.
It is abnormal for a child to cry for an extended period of time. And that is what this case is. I emphasize abnormal. A child that goes on for that length of time is either physically ill or mentally impaired. If physically ill or emotionally or physically incapable of handling the stress of flying, the child should not fly. If the child demonstrates an extended period of pain while crying this is indicative of a physical condition. A parent who forces a child to fly under such a condition is putting the child's health at risk. It is irresponsible and cruel to subject the child to travel. In plain language, if children are incapable of sitting quietly at this stage of their development, then they should not be flying. The children who act up for a prolonged period of time demonstrate this condition before they get on the flight. It's not a surprise event.
The reality is that the vast majority of children can and do behave quietly, even children with cognitive impairments. It is the parents who usually ignore this and who impose their child on others. It's time to hold the parents responsible for inflicting the pain and suffering on the children and on others in the cabin.
#65
Join Date: Dec 2010
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IThe reality is that the vast majority of children can and do behave quietly, even children with cognitive impairments. It is the parents who usually ignore this and who impose their child on others. It's time to hold the parents responsible for inflicting the pain and suffering on the children and on others in the cabin.
Answer: it doesn't.
It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip. Want it perfect everytime - fly private.
This thread...
#66
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The somewhat intolerant (and overly expectant) OP could use both silicone earplugs and over the ear NC headphones and probably do quite well in the future.
#67
Join Date: May 2012
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And how does that translate to an expectation that the airline should compensate an annoyed passenger?
Answer: it doesn't.
It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip. Want it perfect everytime - fly private.
This thread...
Answer: it doesn't.
It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip. Want it perfect everytime - fly private.
This thread...
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
#68
Join Date: Jul 2010
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The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
#69
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It is not an unreasonable expectation to be able to fly in relative peace and quiet. Yes, I understand that a child can cry. However, there is a difference between short episodes and a prolonged state of noise. At all times, it is the moral obligation of the guardian to try and stop the noise that goes on for an extended period of time.
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#70
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And they probably could deplane a screaming child (with parents) under the same clause in the COC, but of course at 35k ft its more difficult.
#71
Join Date: Oct 2009
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I sense the frustration of the OP. I sat in the bulkhead row starboard side window early in my flying days with a couple and their child who never stopped crying for hours on the PVG ORD Route. The FA sensed my entrapment and moved them to a middle row a few rows back where they had an open middle for the lap child. This was in Y
i wonder why a couple with a crying baby would even benefit from C when theyre fighting to keep their child quiet-just move to Y and leave the high paying customers to their proper level of comfort that theyre paying so much for.
i wonder why a couple with a crying baby would even benefit from C when theyre fighting to keep their child quiet-just move to Y and leave the high paying customers to their proper level of comfort that theyre paying so much for.
#72
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Here's what you can also do, other than flying private:
When you board a flight and see a child in the vicinity-- of the age that you feel might be disruptive to your experience-- find a FA or a GA and ask them to re-accommodate you on a later flight. See, that way you can ban yourself from flights with children. Certainly the more proactive thing to do till the airlines realize you are right about discriminating against Passengers of Young Age (POYA).
When you board a flight and see a child in the vicinity-- of the age that you feel might be disruptive to your experience-- find a FA or a GA and ask them to re-accommodate you on a later flight. See, that way you can ban yourself from flights with children. Certainly the more proactive thing to do till the airlines realize you are right about discriminating against Passengers of Young Age (POYA).
Last edited by knit-in; Mar 16, 2018 at 11:16 pm
#74
Join Date: May 2012
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And you are missing the point. A child that screams for a prolonged period of time is an abnormal event and one most likely avoided. The issue isn't the short crying fits children can have. The parents had an obligation to calm the child or to not fly if the child was physically or emotionally unfit to travel. Physically or emotionally unfit children are not secrets and they do not appear magically. If the guardian is aware of the condition and still flies, the guardian is responsible for the noise event.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
Everybody around us had lots of words of encouragement and knew we tried hard. We were letting everybody get off first since he finally fell asleep and we had a few things to gather and clean up before we deplaned and we would probably have to wait for the stroller at the door. A grumpy old man cussed at us loudly as he passed us by and called us unfit parents. The people in front of him called him out for it. Unless you are right next to the parents and kids, it's hard to judge what the parents have done to calm the child.
My son flew many times after that as an infant along with my daughter later on as an infant. Again, no more than a few seconds of crying before we were able to get it under control. Just because a child cried for a long period of time doesn't mean there was a physical or emotional condition. Sometimes it's just bad luck.
#75
Join Date: Nov 2013
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I have a question for the OP. Would you be willing to pay the airline for the loss of revenue of banning these people? What about for the legal damages they would likely face if sues or fined?
I am the father of an 8 month old who has (so far) been a good flier on 5 of 6 flights, including a 10 hour JFK to AMM flight. But on one recent AA flight from MCO to JFK the poor kid was not feeling it. I dont know what it was, but he would not stop crying. We tried every trick in the book but we were not having it.
Babies cry the same was as adults snore.
I am the father of an 8 month old who has (so far) been a good flier on 5 of 6 flights, including a 10 hour JFK to AMM flight. But on one recent AA flight from MCO to JFK the poor kid was not feeling it. I dont know what it was, but he would not stop crying. We tried every trick in the book but we were not having it.
Babies cry the same was as adults snore.