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Non-Stop Screaming/Crying Infant on International Flight

Non-Stop Screaming/Crying Infant on International Flight

Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:06 pm
  #61  
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A Moderator colleague already posted as follows, but unfortunately the post was overlooked or ignored.

If you haven't read the rules in a while, now would be a great time to acquaint yourself with them:
https://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php

I'll focus on this one:

12.2 Avoid Getting Personal

If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.

FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).

If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see
Rule 22 When you believe someone has violated the rules.


Thanks.


JDiver
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:12 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
Isn't there already another thread on this very subject?
Understatement of the year
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:24 pm
  #63  
 
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I would expect the airline to give you a token number of miles maybe 10,000 as a gesture of good will
I find most babies get on and go to sleep and aren’t much of a bother. But you occasionally get a crier. A crier with attentive parents tends to go to sleep a crier with parents not paying attention is every passengers worst nightmare on a long flight. I think a quiet zone would be nice but I sit in the quiet zone all sorts of places only to listen to ludicrous cellphone conversations so I am not sure that inconsiderate un self aware types will really understand that quiet zones don’t mean only they talk when they feel like it

i don’t blame you for being unhappy but it is the luck of the draw. If there was an unruly adult and the airline did not intercede you would have a bigger complaint. Me I would be mad but then move on to what I can control pretty quickly
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:28 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by bse118
AA is not going compensate you for a crying baby on a JAL flight. Nor should they.

If you want a guarantee of a cabin environment exactly to your specifications: fly private.
It is not an unreasonable expectation to be able to fly in relative peace and quiet. Yes, I understand that a child can cry. However, there is a difference between short episodes and a prolonged state of noise. At all times, it is the moral obligation of the guardian to try and stop the noise that goes on for an extended period of time.

There is no dispute that it is normal for a small child to cry during descent and ascent because of the blocking of ears. We all know that the crying is good because it helps equalize the air pressure. However, this should not go beyond 10-15 minutes. We also know that children cry when they are scared, or tired or when the diaper is full or when they are hungry. There are easy fixes which achieve peace relatively quickly.

It is abnormal for a child to cry for an extended period of time. And that is what this case is. I emphasize abnormal. A child that goes on for that length of time is either physically ill or mentally impaired. If physically ill or emotionally or physically incapable of handling the stress of flying, the child should not fly. If the child demonstrates an extended period of pain while crying this is indicative of a physical condition. A parent who forces a child to fly under such a condition is putting the child's health at risk. It is irresponsible and cruel to subject the child to travel. In plain language, if children are incapable of sitting quietly at this stage of their development, then they should not be flying. The children who act up for a prolonged period of time demonstrate this condition before they get on the flight. It's not a surprise event.

The reality is that the vast majority of children can and do behave quietly, even children with cognitive impairments. It is the parents who usually ignore this and who impose their child on others. It's time to hold the parents responsible for inflicting the pain and suffering on the children and on others in the cabin.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:35 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
IThe reality is that the vast majority of children can and do behave quietly, even children with cognitive impairments. It is the parents who usually ignore this and who impose their child on others. It's time to hold the parents responsible for inflicting the pain and suffering on the children and on others in the cabin.
And how does that translate to an expectation that the airline should compensate an annoyed passenger?

Answer: it doesn't.

It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip. Want it perfect everytime - fly private.

This thread...
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 8:51 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by wetrat0
As a serious reply, I always bring several pairs Mack's ultrasoft earplugs everywhere I travel, the ones with the 32dB Noise Reduction Rating (be careful not to get the ones with only 29 or 30dB NRR-- there is a big difference).
Yet sound studies have proven a change of 3 dB or less is inaudible to humans, go figure. 10 dbA is perceived as "twice as loud".
The somewhat intolerant (and overly expectant) OP could use both silicone earplugs and over the ear NC headphones and probably do quite well in the future.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 9:06 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by bse118
And how does that translate to an expectation that the airline should compensate an annoyed passenger?

Answer: it doesn't.

It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip. Want it perfect everytime - fly private.

This thread...
And you are missing the point. A child that screams for a prolonged period of time is an abnormal event and one most likely avoided. The issue isn't the short crying fits children can have. The parents had an obligation to calm the child or to not fly if the child was physically or emotionally unfit to travel. Physically or emotionally unfit children are not secrets and they do not appear magically. If the guardian is aware of the condition and still flies, the guardian is responsible for the noise event.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 9:13 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
So your advice as a legal professional is for the OP to sue the airline?
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 10:21 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
It is not an unreasonable expectation to be able to fly in relative peace and quiet. Yes, I understand that a child can cry. However, there is a difference between short episodes and a prolonged state of noise. At all times, it is the moral obligation of the guardian to try and stop the noise that goes on for an extended period of time.
<snipped>
.
OP stated the parents didn't do anything. However, I suspect they did try, because I am quite sure they were the closet to the noise.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 10:23 pm
  #70  
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Originally Posted by bse118
It's public transport...sometimes on public transport you get a less than ideal travelling companion. Wether that's a crying baby, a barking dog, someone who forgot their deodorant, someone who ignores the headphone jack on thier tablet, or some DYKWIA on a power trip.
Actually, the airline can deplane a passenger that smells bad.
And they probably could deplane a screaming child (with parents) under the same clause in the COC, but of course at 35k ft its more difficult.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 10:33 pm
  #71  
 
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I sense the frustration of the OP. I sat in the bulkhead row starboard side window early in my flying days with a couple and their child who never stopped crying for hours on the PVG ORD Route. The FA sensed my entrapment and moved them to a middle row a few rows back where they had an open middle for the lap child. This was in Y

i wonder why a couple with a crying baby would even benefit from C when theyre fighting to keep their child quiet-just move to Y and leave the high paying customers to their proper level of comfort that theyre paying so much for.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 11:09 pm
  #72  
 
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Here's what you can also do, other than flying private:

When you board a flight and see a child in the vicinity-- of the age that you feel might be disruptive to your experience-- find a FA or a GA and ask them to re-accommodate you on a later flight. See, that way you can ban yourself from flights with children. Certainly the more proactive thing to do till the airlines realize you are right about discriminating against Passengers of Young Age (POYA).

Last edited by knit-in; Mar 16, 2018 at 11:16 pm
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 11:13 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
I suggest you move your travels to United, where hopefully you'll get a crew member that insists the kid is stowed in the overhead bin until it dies.
One can only hope. At the very least the screaming will be muffled when the bin is closed.
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Old Mar 16, 2018, 11:28 pm
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
And you are missing the point. A child that screams for a prolonged period of time is an abnormal event and one most likely avoided. The issue isn't the short crying fits children can have. The parents had an obligation to calm the child or to not fly if the child was physically or emotionally unfit to travel. Physically or emotionally unfit children are not secrets and they do not appear magically. If the guardian is aware of the condition and still flies, the guardian is responsible for the noise event.
The airline has a vicarious liability because it controls the cabin and did not do its utmost to ensure the complainant customer's enjoyment of use of the cabin paid for. The airline has the option of seating children in a specific section of the aircraft, and it also has an option of excluding young children from the premium cabin. The airline did not do this.
Although unlikely, it can happen. Unfortunately I have my family and infant son as an example. My son flew 8 segments, and was never a problem that we couldn't solve by giving him milk, a pacifier, food, toys, crazy faces, lifts in the air, a walk in the cabin, etc... We are normally very prepared and plan our travelling accordingly by properly timing naps and food, getting bulk head seats, and being on bigger planes, but on 1 flight segment after those 8 we were unable to plan. Found out in the morning that my grand father in law had a stroke and was expected to die within 24 hours or less. I bought the next available flight out for the three of us. No time to have my son take his nap early or later, he was interrupted at daycare right after he only got a few minutes of sleep. He was cranky on that flight and for an hour nothing we did would calm him down for more than a couple of minutes. For an hour, he was crying on and off loudly. It didn't help that it was a bumpy flight, the seat belt sign was on, and we couldn't get up and walk around (I'm 99% certain if we could have walked while having him strapped on, it would have calmed him down). He was perfect on the next flight segment, when we had time at the stop over to get all his needs attended to and he got his nap.

Everybody around us had lots of words of encouragement and knew we tried hard. We were letting everybody get off first since he finally fell asleep and we had a few things to gather and clean up before we deplaned and we would probably have to wait for the stroller at the door. A grumpy old man cussed at us loudly as he passed us by and called us unfit parents. The people in front of him called him out for it. Unless you are right next to the parents and kids, it's hard to judge what the parents have done to calm the child.

My son flew many times after that as an infant along with my daughter later on as an infant. Again, no more than a few seconds of crying before we were able to get it under control. Just because a child cried for a long period of time doesn't mean there was a physical or emotional condition. Sometimes it's just bad luck.
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Old Mar 17, 2018, 12:08 am
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by Psychocadet
I have a question for the OP. Would you be willing to pay the airline for the loss of revenue of banning these people? What about for the legal damages they would likely face if sues or fined?

I am the father of an 8 month old who has (so far) been a good flier on 5 of 6 flights, including a 10 hour JFK to AMM flight. But on one recent AA flight from MCO to JFK the poor kid was not feeling it. I dont know what it was, but he would not stop crying. We tried every trick in the book but we were not having it.

Babies cry the same was as adults snore.
That part where you said you tried every trick in the book? That's all we can ask. You tried. OP is saying that the family ignored the baby's cries, which I fully believe because I've seen those parents. Heck, I have a friend who didn't even scold his daughter when she threw a toy across a coffee shop once. He just ran and played fetch like an obedient puppy. I was mortified and haven't invited him for coffee since.
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