Non-Stop Screaming/Crying Infant on International Flight
Mar 16, 2018, 10:41 am
#16
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I don't want to endure a crying child for hours any more than anyone else does but I do have to give some sympathy to the airline's as well.
Southwest 'threw' a family off a flight yesterday because of a crying child. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/v...off-plane.html
Of course the response is 'how dare they do that'. So for doing what the OP of this thread would like the airlines to do, they were condemned. Then other people like the OP, would condemn them for NOT throwing them off the plane if the took off and the child continued to cry throughout the flight. The airlines can't win either way.
As the saying goes, 'you can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.' That's the reality every airline has to deal with just as most other businesses do. If we choose to fly on public transportation, it is up to us as individuals to realize what that brings with it. It's just like living in a condo and anyone who has, probably knows what I mean by that. 'No you cannot keep your bicycle on your balcony, the condo rules don't permit it as many condo owners see it as an eyesore that detracts from the look of their property'.
The OP clearly sees children as something that detracts from his flying experience and has as much right to voice that view as someone who has children has the right to expect to be able to fly with their children. Neither of them is 'right' in any absolute sense. The airline is stuck with having to try to keep everyone happy while at the same time knowing it is an impossible task.
Southwest 'threw' a family off a flight yesterday because of a crying child. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/v...off-plane.html
Of course the response is 'how dare they do that'. So for doing what the OP of this thread would like the airlines to do, they were condemned. Then other people like the OP, would condemn them for NOT throwing them off the plane if the took off and the child continued to cry throughout the flight. The airlines can't win either way.
As the saying goes, 'you can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time.' That's the reality every airline has to deal with just as most other businesses do. If we choose to fly on public transportation, it is up to us as individuals to realize what that brings with it. It's just like living in a condo and anyone who has, probably knows what I mean by that. 'No you cannot keep your bicycle on your balcony, the condo rules don't permit it as many condo owners see it as an eyesore that detracts from the look of their property'.
The OP clearly sees children as something that detracts from his flying experience and has as much right to voice that view as someone who has children has the right to expect to be able to fly with their children. Neither of them is 'right' in any absolute sense. The airline is stuck with having to try to keep everyone happy while at the same time knowing it is an impossible task.
Mar 16, 2018, 10:46 am
#17
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This is such a difficult situation from the crew's point of view. These are nightmare situations and it does seem that not one flight leaves without babies or small children. However, what has been bought is a Business Class ticket It is sold to anyone that can afford it and whilst it may promise some things, no where does it promise a Silent Zone. I'm afraid that over the years, I have suffered far more from the behaviour of adults on board aircraft than children. I have not in my entire flight career had a child who was drunk, violent, or belligerent. I have not had one child complaining about their seat. I have had Nannies, Nurses, and even Mothers attempt to change their infant's diapers in front of everyone (in First and in Business) and I cannot blame that on the child. I've had rude parents clambering into and out of my space because they have been separated as part some seat allocation snafu and not a word of apology. "Blame AA" said one Charm School Graduate. "For your ill-manners?" said I " your Mother more like". Still that is neither here nor there.
I am, however, most sympathetic to the OP as I and probably everyone here has suffered similarly. I am not going into the realms of compensation as I am rather old school and think that the whole culture has got completely out of hand. No pain, no injury (except to the OP's temper), and no one was negligent. In the old days, I would probably have take the little one away, but the world has changed, and I'm not sure that passenger comfort is seem as implicitly part of crew contracts these days. I feel for the parents too, and if I suspect that the child is in any way having pain or upset because of flying, I forgive everything.
It may be longer than I wish to admit, but yes, I was little once as well.
I am, however, most sympathetic to the OP as I and probably everyone here has suffered similarly. I am not going into the realms of compensation as I am rather old school and think that the whole culture has got completely out of hand. No pain, no injury (except to the OP's temper), and no one was negligent. In the old days, I would probably have take the little one away, but the world has changed, and I'm not sure that passenger comfort is seem as implicitly part of crew contracts these days. I feel for the parents too, and if I suspect that the child is in any way having pain or upset because of flying, I forgive everything.
It may be longer than I wish to admit, but yes, I was little once as well.
Mar 16, 2018, 10:47 am
#18
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I would like to know what the rest of you would do or how you would handle it once landed. I was on a JAL flight, partnered with AA recently. As the JAL flight was on the AA booking I guess AA would be the airline to contact although I contacted both.
JALs response: " As to answer your inquiry of compensation, we regret to inform you that we cannot meet your expectation. We do sympathize with your situation and understand the great deal of frustration you must have felt in this matter, but your understanding is highly appreciated "
AA's response is more comical and my followup pissed them off: "... Additionally, we, along with other airlines, do not discriminate against passengers regarding age. If parents wish to travel with their children, then they will be able to do so. My suggestion for the future, is if you are unhappy with your seat assignment, consult with the flight attendant to see if alternative seating arrangements can be made. " So I rebutted with something along the lines of... so if an adult cried and screamed for the entire flight would the airline discriminate against me? Or would the flight attendants have me in handcuffs and law enforcement waiting for me on the ground?.. It didn't go over very well with the AA customer service staff, but I don't care.
I had to tolerate this screaming kid in business class for four hours. The flight crew did nothing. The parents did nothing. The business class section on JAL is only 30 seats. 2-2-2. What I would like to know is since when do airlines even allow infants in business class? And since when would they tolerate such behavior? I am dumbfounded. Those business class tickets are expensive. I pay extra to avoid things like this plus the leg room, but not on this flight! Wow! And the answers from both airlines make me wonder. In addition right behind business class are the bassinet seats in economy class, and guess what? Another crying baby was sitting there, but that one was at least intermittent. Sorry to say it, but infants should not be allowed to fly unless there is a medical reason or the family is moving house. These people were just on a holiday. It is high time that airlines start locking up parents and children in there own little tiny soundproof room for the duration of a flight. I am sick of this situation. AAs stupidity is dumbfounding, talk to the flight attendant for another seat, like it would have done any good... As I said above, business class is small, and the infant should not have been there to begin with. Says me.. But not sure what JALs policy is.. I suspect, nothing...
What would you guys do? Drop it and forget it? They are obviously not going to compensate me, I have tried, to no avail, would the Dept. of Transportation like to hear about this? Skytrax? I don't know....
JALs response: " As to answer your inquiry of compensation, we regret to inform you that we cannot meet your expectation. We do sympathize with your situation and understand the great deal of frustration you must have felt in this matter, but your understanding is highly appreciated "
AA's response is more comical and my followup pissed them off: "... Additionally, we, along with other airlines, do not discriminate against passengers regarding age. If parents wish to travel with their children, then they will be able to do so. My suggestion for the future, is if you are unhappy with your seat assignment, consult with the flight attendant to see if alternative seating arrangements can be made. " So I rebutted with something along the lines of... so if an adult cried and screamed for the entire flight would the airline discriminate against me? Or would the flight attendants have me in handcuffs and law enforcement waiting for me on the ground?.. It didn't go over very well with the AA customer service staff, but I don't care.
I had to tolerate this screaming kid in business class for four hours. The flight crew did nothing. The parents did nothing. The business class section on JAL is only 30 seats. 2-2-2. What I would like to know is since when do airlines even allow infants in business class? And since when would they tolerate such behavior? I am dumbfounded. Those business class tickets are expensive. I pay extra to avoid things like this plus the leg room, but not on this flight! Wow! And the answers from both airlines make me wonder. In addition right behind business class are the bassinet seats in economy class, and guess what? Another crying baby was sitting there, but that one was at least intermittent. Sorry to say it, but infants should not be allowed to fly unless there is a medical reason or the family is moving house. These people were just on a holiday. It is high time that airlines start locking up parents and children in there own little tiny soundproof room for the duration of a flight. I am sick of this situation. AAs stupidity is dumbfounding, talk to the flight attendant for another seat, like it would have done any good... As I said above, business class is small, and the infant should not have been there to begin with. Says me.. But not sure what JALs policy is.. I suspect, nothing...
What would you guys do? Drop it and forget it? They are obviously not going to compensate me, I have tried, to no avail, would the Dept. of Transportation like to hear about this? Skytrax? I don't know....
I know it is hard, you paid or your company paid good money for a luxurious experience and then this, but again a little sympathy can go a long ways.
Mar 16, 2018, 10:48 am
#19
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As a serious reply, I always bring several pairs Mack's ultrasoft earplugs everywhere I travel, the ones with the 32dB Noise Reduction Rating (be careful not to get the ones with only 29 or 30dB NRR-- there is a big difference). I do not rely on the earplugs provided in the amenity kit-- they are much cheaper and do not provide the same noise reduction. If you do not usually wear this kind of earplug, watch a YouTube video about how to put them in correctly. Many people just kind of stick them in the ears, whereas they are meant to be rolled up so that the tip seals the opening of your ear canal. This will not eliminate the noise of course, but a pair of good-quality earplugs, properlyworn, will go a long, long way.
Buy the bulk jar with 50 pairs and you'll quickly make friends with your fellow travelers during such a flight!
Buy the bulk jar with 50 pairs and you'll quickly make friends with your fellow travelers during such a flight!
Mar 16, 2018, 10:49 am
#20
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I don't want to endure a crying child for hours any more than anyone else does but I do have to give some sympathy to the airline's as well.
Southwest 'threw' a family off a flight yesterday because of a crying child. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/v...off-plane.html
<snipped>
Southwest 'threw' a family off a flight yesterday because of a crying child. https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/v...off-plane.html
<snipped>
Mar 16, 2018, 11:06 am
#21
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Isn't there a Middle East airline that has separate cabins for families? I don't know how I would stand a crying and screaming baby for hours UGH.
Mar 16, 2018, 11:07 am
#22
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I 2nd the suggestion for Etymotic earphones. Best purchase I've ever made. I also think that premium cabins should have an age limit, but no airline is going to do this if they can get a full price ticket to haul half or less of the weight of an adult pax.
As for the issue, I'd adjust based on how the parents were handling. If they were actively trying to parent and doing all they reasonably could, I'd force myself to let it go.
If they were not, I'd start calm and go from there. Ask the FA to do speak to them and keep going up until you get to the captain if needed. Or, worst case, say something to the parent themselves. It's not fun, but has to happen sometimes.
As for the issue, I'd adjust based on how the parents were handling. If they were actively trying to parent and doing all they reasonably could, I'd force myself to let it go.
If they were not, I'd start calm and go from there. Ask the FA to do speak to them and keep going up until you get to the captain if needed. Or, worst case, say something to the parent themselves. It's not fun, but has to happen sometimes.
Mar 16, 2018, 11:19 am
#23
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Sympathies to the poor parents, evidently you've not gotten around much, nor had children, or were a blessed parent, LOL
I know it is hard, you paid or your company paid good money for a luxurious experience and then this, but again a little sympathy can go a long ways.
I know it is hard, you paid or your company paid good money for a luxurious experience and then this, but again a little sympathy can go a long ways.
I think OP is completely in his right to be upset that the parents weren't trying to console the child. I do not expect OP to have any recourse from AA or JL, although waiting until landing was probably a bad idea - perhaps asking an FA during the flight if they could talk to the parents would have been helpful - at least for OP.
Mar 16, 2018, 11:20 am
#24
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Is this a serious question?
DROP IT AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Seriously.
Bring earplugs or fly a private jet next time. Or I think Malaysian Airlines bans children from first class (not business), so fly them. (Though I'm not sure that's still the case, or if they even still have first class.)
As a side note, I personally do think airlines should consider banning lap children from premium cabins, but a paying passenger is a paying passenger. It is a public form of transportation, so if parents pay for the seat there's nothing you can do.
DROP IT AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Seriously.
Bring earplugs or fly a private jet next time. Or I think Malaysian Airlines bans children from first class (not business), so fly them. (Though I'm not sure that's still the case, or if they even still have first class.)
As a side note, I personally do think airlines should consider banning lap children from premium cabins, but a paying passenger is a paying passenger. It is a public form of transportation, so if parents pay for the seat there's nothing you can do.
As for the OP's question, you got the correct answer earlier in this thread. Fly private.
If we are banning children, though, because they cause an annoyance, I'd like to ban the following, as well:
1. The guy who pulls on the back of my seat every time he needs to get up. That also goes for people walking through/waiting in the aisle who feel a need to lean on my seat.
2. The "loud talker" who feels a need to share his (and it's always a guy, which is why I say "his") opinions on everything while waiting for the lav
3. Gate lice
4. Any pilot who begins an announcement with "Well, folks..."
5. Any passenger who sits in the lounge and plays their phone/iPad without headphones.
See, we can all play this game.
Mike
Mar 16, 2018, 11:28 am
#25
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Sorry to say it, but infants should not be allowed to fly unless there is a medical reason or the family is moving house. These people were just on a holiday. It is high time that airlines start locking up parents and children in there own little tiny soundproof room for the duration of a flight. I am sick of this situation. AAs stupidity is dumbfounding, talk to the flight attendant for another seat, like it would have done any good... As I said above, business class is small, and the infant should not have been there to begin with. Says me.. But not sure what JALs policy is.. I suspect, nothing...
What would you guys do? Drop it and forget it? They are obviously not going to compensate me, I have tried, to no avail, would the Dept. of Transportation like to hear about this? Skytrax? I don't know....
What would you guys do? Drop it and forget it? They are obviously not going to compensate me, I have tried, to no avail, would the Dept. of Transportation like to hear about this? Skytrax? I don't know....
In your case I would drop it and forget it as you suggest. No one will really care though there's lots of sympathizers here for you, which is something I suppose. Sometimes a rant is quite cathartic I find. I agree with other posters; unfortunately the cost of the business class ticket does not include a guarantee of a quiet ride - rather it's a bigger seat and perhaps better food. That would require the next step up to private.
Sorry you had a noisy flight. It is annoying when that happens, that's for sure.
Mar 16, 2018, 11:53 am
#26
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I hear on United they'll put the kid in the overhead bin with all the dogs.
Mar 16, 2018, 11:54 am
#27
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I have had a number of flights disturbed by people who behaved like babies despite being in their 50's. Once it was a mother yelling at her four (adult) kids (all in First Class) for the whole of a two hour flight, with no concerns for anyone else in the cabin at all.
But with a real baby I have lots of sympathy 0 many things make them cry and they are not always easily understood and solved.
The main consolation is that you are not the parents, you don't have to do anything about it and at the end of your four hour flight you get to go a different way!
But with a real baby I have lots of sympathy 0 many things make them cry and they are not always easily understood and solved.
The main consolation is that you are not the parents, you don't have to do anything about it and at the end of your four hour flight you get to go a different way!
Mar 16, 2018, 11:56 am
#28
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
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I’m known for my magical ability to always have young children seated behind me. First Class, Business Class, Coach-it doesn’t matter. I sympathize with the OP but the reality is that you can either switch to another seat (even self down grade if necessary) or simply buck it up. Those are basically the only realistic options.
Mar 16, 2018, 12:04 pm
#29
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I really don't want to read it - but I'm curious about the original correspondence to AA. That's a pretty personalized response so it must have been interesting.
I've got a 14 week old and a 2.5 year old. No one hears their cries louder than their mother and I.
I've got a 14 week old and a 2.5 year old. No one hears their cries louder than their mother and I.
Mar 16, 2018, 1:19 pm
#30
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I 2nd the suggestion for Etymotic earphones. Best purchase I've ever made. I also think that premium cabins should have an age limit, but no airline is going to do this if they can get a full price ticket to haul half or less of the weight of an adult pax.
As for the issue, I'd adjust based on how the parents were handling. If they were actively trying to parent and doing all they reasonably could, I'd force myself to let it go.
If they were not, I'd start calm and go from there. Ask the FA to do speak to them and keep going up until you get to the captain if needed. Or, worst case, say something to the parent themselves. It's not fun, but has to happen sometimes.
As for the issue, I'd adjust based on how the parents were handling. If they were actively trying to parent and doing all they reasonably could, I'd force myself to let it go.
If they were not, I'd start calm and go from there. Ask the FA to do speak to them and keep going up until you get to the captain if needed. Or, worst case, say something to the parent themselves. It's not fun, but has to happen sometimes.