Alleged sexual assault on AA redeye Jun 2017 - victim speaks, to sue AA
Mar 17, 2018, 12:15 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
We'd have to know more about the apparent FBI investigation. I know people have claimed that the FBI doesn't take these cases "seriously enough," but that doesn't sound quite right to me. I'm inclined to believe that if an airline calls in an alleged sexual assault and the police meet that aircraft, a reasonable investigation is then undertaken. Since this incident is alleged to have happened last June, I think we can assume that the FBI did not find probable cause to arrest anyone. Whether that was a good call or a bad call, I have no idea. But in light of these facts, what is AA supposed to do for this woman? If you were in their legal dep't and she was suing your airline for an alleged sexual assault by a fellow passenger that the police found insufficient evidence of (and for which you had no additional information) what would you pay her? I would think $5000 (what would be considered in legal circles to be "nuisance value") would be appropriate. That and a sincere apology for anything unfortunate that happened on her flight.
Mar 17, 2018, 12:15 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
We'd have to know more about the apparent FBI investigation. I know people have claimed that the FBI doesn't take these cases "seriously enough," but that doesn't sound quite right to me. I'm inclined to believe that if an airline calls in an alleged sexual assault and the police meet that aircraft, a reasonable investigation is then undertaken. Since this incident is alleged to have happened last June, I think we can assume that the FBI did not find probable cause to arrest anyone. Whether that was a good call or a bad call, I have no idea. But in light of these facts, what is AA supposed to do for this woman? If you were in their legal dep't and she was suing your airline for an alleged sexual assault by a fellow passenger that the police found insufficient evidence of (and for which you had no additional information) what would you pay her? I would think $5000 (what would be considered in legal circles to be "nuisance value") would be appropriate. That and a sincere apology for anything unfortunate that happened on her flight.
Part of the point of filing a lawsuit is to find out what AA knows about the incident, because filing the lawsuit triggers the discovery process. The woman's lawyer can obtain copies of any of AA's internal recordkeeping regarding the incident, including potentially any witness statements from FAs. Likewise they can procure any evidence from the police/FBI investigation. Then they can put the evidence in front of a judge or jury to determine whether AA has any civil liability.
Mar 17, 2018, 12:16 pm
#48
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
Just because there is a legal word in existence doesn't mean it's the right one under the circumstances. A nuisance is when someone plays loud music next door or otherwise prevents you from the peaceful enjoyment of your property. It's not when they assault you. So even if we completely disregard the non-legal meaning of the term, it's still a terrible response to characterize a rape as a nuisance.
We get it... you find this common term to be offensive for some unimaginable reason. Move on.
Mar 17, 2018, 12:27 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,417
If we take your assumptions to be true, then this is a clear cut case of why frivolous lawsuits should be criminalized. This would be nothing short of extortion... it is far more cost effective for AA to settle than to fight the suit, which is unfair because they shouldn't owe a dime to begin with.
This woman was, allegedly, assaulted on an AA aircraft. If it's true, that's very bad. And if AA knew or should have known that the alleged assailant was a threat to the woman, and did nothing, they could be liable. Serving him a drink (or multiple drinks) might have contributed to the alleged crime. We just don't know all the facts yet.
I do agree that there's something weird about the alleged fact pattern. Whether we will ever learn more, or the case will somehow go away, I don't know.
Mar 17, 2018, 12:50 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,227
If she went to the Hospital as reported, the ED should/would have done a rape kit. If a rape kit/exam was done and was positive, they have the male passengers names on the flight. If there was DNA, then ID of the perp should be pretty straight forward investigative work. Not rocket science, this sort of forensic work goes on daily. Some of the story is missing.
AA (or the FBI) does not have a sample of my DNA, nor are they going to get it.
Mar 17, 2018, 1:06 pm
#52
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
Mar 17, 2018, 1:36 pm
#53
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
I read the Wikipedia page you linked to; I explained why it's a ridiculous legal theory to apply to the situation at hand. So the way normal discussion works is now if you think I'm wrong you explain why. Otherwise we can all just properly conclude that you have no idea what you're talking about and just decided that since the airline used a word it must be right.
Mar 17, 2018, 1:49 pm
#54
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
It's literally exactly on topic since that is one of the points of contention about the original article.
I read the Wikipedia page you linked to; I explained why it's a ridiculous legal theory to apply to the situation at hand. So the way normal discussion works is now if you think I'm wrong you explain why. Otherwise we can all just properly conclude that you have no idea what you're talking about and just decided that since the airline used a word it must be right.
I read the Wikipedia page you linked to; I explained why it's a ridiculous legal theory to apply to the situation at hand. So the way normal discussion works is now if you think I'm wrong you explain why. Otherwise we can all just properly conclude that you have no idea what you're talking about and just decided that since the airline used a word it must be right.
Mar 17, 2018, 2:41 pm
#55
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DCA/RIC
Programs: HH LTD, AA LTG
Posts: 1,015
Mar 17, 2018, 3:38 pm
#56
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Enchantment!
Programs: Southwest RR, Alaska Mileage Plan™
Posts: 341
SJW stands for Social Justice Warrior in online media mainly. Like forums such as this, Facebook, twitter, etc
Mar 17, 2018, 4:17 pm
#57
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,397
We'd have to know more about the apparent FBI investigation. I know people have claimed that the FBI doesn't take these cases "seriously enough," but that doesn't sound quite right to me. I'm inclined to believe that if an airline calls in an alleged sexual assault and the police meet that aircraft, a reasonable investigation is then undertaken. Since this incident is alleged to have happened last June, I think we can assume that the FBI did not find probable cause to arrest anyone. Whether that was a good call or a bad call, I have no idea. But in light of these facts, what is AA supposed to do for this woman? If you were in their legal dep't and she was suing your airline for an alleged sexual assault by a fellow passenger that the police found insufficient evidence of (and for which you had no additional information) what would you pay her? I would think $5000 (what would be considered in legal circles to be "nuisance value") would be appropriate. That and a sincere apology for anything unfortunate that happened on her flight.
I wonder whether AA called ahead for law enforcement to meet the arriving aircraft or just for emergency medical care for the woman. It sounds like the latter.
Mar 17, 2018, 6:56 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,417
Which, of course, makes sense. The woman told a flight attendant on board that she had been raped. No flight attendant in the world would think that only "medical care" would be needed upon arrival in such circumstances.
Mar 18, 2018, 2:21 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CHS
Programs: Lots
Posts: 1,012
It's a term bigots, racists, misogynists and the like often use when someone has the audacity to point out their bigotry, racism or misogyny. Whether that was the case in this instance I have no idea but it's generally used as an insult to discredit someone for acknowledging social injustices.
Mar 18, 2018, 8:45 am
#60
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
It's a term bigots, racists, misogynists and the like often use when someone has the audacity to point out their bigotry, racism or misogyny. Whether that was the case in this instance I have no idea but it's generally used as an insult to discredit someone for acknowledging social injustices.