Missed flight in DFW due to Skylink skipping D terminal
Jan 5, 2018, 3:07 pm
#16
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Jan 5, 2018, 3:15 pm
#17
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Jan 5, 2018, 3:18 pm
#18
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Agreed, I almost always walk, using the C4/A39 connectors frequently. Typically when traveling, my diet takes a hit, so well justified, plus it's almost as fast, often much faster if you're near those connectors. My wife is less of a long distance walker despite being more fit than I am. That said, C37 to B48 with about a ten minute window required us to take Skylink. Of the maybe 50 times I was in DFW last year, I believe I probably only took Skylink maybe one other time, also on a high-B to high-C connection and/or a high-B to low-A.
At least there are bi-directional trams, I got stuck on TrAAin once, then it broke, and the whole thing was shut down, fortunately, back then there was no D and I seldom take regionals so mostly dealing with just A or C.
In 2015 or 2016, I did have the tram make an emergency stop from full speed on the B to A connector bridge. Immediately, full fledged stop. Everyone that was standing hit the deck, bags went flying forward. I've also had trams doors not open, but in the 12'ish years I've used SkyLink, it's been reliable enough, but for the last three years, I really prioritize walking.
At least there are bi-directional trams, I got stuck on TrAAin once, then it broke, and the whole thing was shut down, fortunately, back then there was no D and I seldom take regionals so mostly dealing with just A or C.
In 2015 or 2016, I did have the tram make an emergency stop from full speed on the B to A connector bridge. Immediately, full fledged stop. Everyone that was standing hit the deck, bags went flying forward. I've also had trams doors not open, but in the 12'ish years I've used SkyLink, it's been reliable enough, but for the last three years, I really prioritize walking.
Jan 5, 2018, 5:21 pm
#19
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On Jan 3, I had an flight that came into DFW at 2PM, with an outgoing flight departure at 4:55 out of terminal A. With 2 hours (and then some) to kill, I went to the Admirals club in Terminal D, since the one in A is closed.
At 4:10, I made way to the Skylink to get to my gate in time for boarding (which was starting at 4:25). I got to the Skylink in terminal D at 4:15, and waiting about 10 minutes with a growing crowd of passengers as the Skylink trains zipped by without stopping. At 4:20, an agent of the airport comes in and tells everyone that because of a 'security breach', the skylink wasn't stopping there (how that makes any sense, I really don't know), and directed everyone to walk to terminal B's skylink station. I held back and confirmed with the agent that the second stop in D was also closed, and was told yes, we had to go to B.
So, family in tow, we hoofed it over the skybridge to C and grabbed a truck-operator to drive us to A20 with a few other passengers going on a different flight. When we got to our gate, the agents had the door closed when we arrived at 4:45 at the gate. Not sure how long it was closed (technically, we should have seen them close it if they actually followed the 10 minute rule), as there was already two parties that were out-of-breath and in mid-argument complaining at the gate agents.
The gate agent told the family in front of us, that because they originated in DFW, it was their fault for not being in the gate on time and they had no priority on rebooking and would have to 'standby' low on the priority list until they could get on a plane. Apparently, they had the audacity of eating in Terminal D and got stuck hightailing it to B where they catched the skylink to get to A.
The gate agent told us, that because our incoming flight arrived at 2, we should have been at the gate by no later than 2:30 and would have made the flight so it was our fault (his words, seriously) that we missed the flight. (by the time we got done arguing and got our standby boarding passes, the plane was just then leaving the gate at 5:05).
All told, there was about 8 parties/15 passengers that missed this flight because of the same reason. After us, the gate agent told everyone else to go to customer service (a line, that looked about 45 minutes long).
We got on standby for a flight an hour and a half later (at a gate in Terminal D, just two gates from the admirals club where we started). On the skylink back to D, the one stop was still closed but the other one (to the south) was open (not convinced it was ever closed to begin with). I met a nice ederly lady who was going to high D gate for an international flight, and we couldn't convince her that she needed to get off at the stop on the low D gates (after zipping by the closed stop) -- I hope on her second time around she finally got off!. I talked to the admirals club agent once back inside to see if we could get seats confirmed, and she, at least apologetically, couldn't and told us to go down 10 minutes before boarding. Other than this disappointment, the admirals club staff was on their A game.
We ended up being three of the 4 passengers cleared out of list of more than 20 people long on that flight, and the plane left with at least three open seats still! Oddly, they removed a random guy seated in front of me just before we left the gate. (why?, was the plane too heavy?)
So, I guess a few lessons:
1. At DFW, if the skylink fails you, AA claims it is your fault for not being at the gate hours in advance of boarding and doesn't give two yulelogs about it.
2. The skylink stations can close for 'security breaches' and nobody may tell you for 10 or more minutes if at all.
3. The doors will close earlier than 10 minutes prior to departure if that is what the gate agent wants to do.
At 4:10, I made way to the Skylink to get to my gate in time for boarding (which was starting at 4:25). I got to the Skylink in terminal D at 4:15, and waiting about 10 minutes with a growing crowd of passengers as the Skylink trains zipped by without stopping. At 4:20, an agent of the airport comes in and tells everyone that because of a 'security breach', the skylink wasn't stopping there (how that makes any sense, I really don't know), and directed everyone to walk to terminal B's skylink station. I held back and confirmed with the agent that the second stop in D was also closed, and was told yes, we had to go to B.
So, family in tow, we hoofed it over the skybridge to C and grabbed a truck-operator to drive us to A20 with a few other passengers going on a different flight. When we got to our gate, the agents had the door closed when we arrived at 4:45 at the gate. Not sure how long it was closed (technically, we should have seen them close it if they actually followed the 10 minute rule), as there was already two parties that were out-of-breath and in mid-argument complaining at the gate agents.
The gate agent told the family in front of us, that because they originated in DFW, it was their fault for not being in the gate on time and they had no priority on rebooking and would have to 'standby' low on the priority list until they could get on a plane. Apparently, they had the audacity of eating in Terminal D and got stuck hightailing it to B where they catched the skylink to get to A.
The gate agent told us, that because our incoming flight arrived at 2, we should have been at the gate by no later than 2:30 and would have made the flight so it was our fault (his words, seriously) that we missed the flight. (by the time we got done arguing and got our standby boarding passes, the plane was just then leaving the gate at 5:05).
All told, there was about 8 parties/15 passengers that missed this flight because of the same reason. After us, the gate agent told everyone else to go to customer service (a line, that looked about 45 minutes long).
We got on standby for a flight an hour and a half later (at a gate in Terminal D, just two gates from the admirals club where we started). On the skylink back to D, the one stop was still closed but the other one (to the south) was open (not convinced it was ever closed to begin with). I met a nice ederly lady who was going to high D gate for an international flight, and we couldn't convince her that she needed to get off at the stop on the low D gates (after zipping by the closed stop) -- I hope on her second time around she finally got off!. I talked to the admirals club agent once back inside to see if we could get seats confirmed, and she, at least apologetically, couldn't and told us to go down 10 minutes before boarding. Other than this disappointment, the admirals club staff was on their A game.
We ended up being three of the 4 passengers cleared out of list of more than 20 people long on that flight, and the plane left with at least three open seats still! Oddly, they removed a random guy seated in front of me just before we left the gate. (why?, was the plane too heavy?)
So, I guess a few lessons:
1. At DFW, if the skylink fails you, AA claims it is your fault for not being at the gate hours in advance of boarding and doesn't give two yulelogs about it.
2. The skylink stations can close for 'security breaches' and nobody may tell you for 10 or more minutes if at all.
3. The doors will close earlier than 10 minutes prior to departure if that is what the gate agent wants to do.
Jan 5, 2018, 7:27 pm
#20
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AA has no control or operating responsibility for SkyTrain. However, when one is late to the gate due to lateness imposed by transport, etc. one can request AA apply the “flat tire” “Rule” (it’s not really a Rules, but AA employees have some flexibility to cut delayed passengers some slack).
On very busy or high OSO / IROPS days, this could require waiting hours or even days for seats to become available.
On very busy or high OSO / IROPS days, this could require waiting hours or even days for seats to become available.
Jan 5, 2018, 7:43 pm
#21
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The drop dead for AA domestic flights is T-15, not T-10. Thus, OP was 5 minutes late. Period. Presuming that OP was on a standard inflexible domestic ticket, it would have been cancelled at T-15, but does not lose its value until departure time. Thus, "flat tire policy" or not, OP was entitled to use the value of his tickets to be rebooked and apparently was. To the extent that he should have been assessed a change or SDC fee, that was waived.
T-10 is the physical closing of the cabin door and has nothing to do with the gate deadline which is clearly stated in both the COC and on the website. This allows time for the GA to board SB's and, if the flight is overbooked and at risk of oversale, to board those passengers without having to IDB/VDB anyone.
At T-15, if there are no passengers left at the gate, there is nothing holding the flight and it is fine to close up and push.
Clearly frustrating that this was not of OP's making. But, this is not about fault, it is simply about not having been at the gate on time and the GA should not have opined about when the OP could possibly have made it to the gate. But, bad things happen every day that are not of peoples' making and they suffer the price for it.
T-10 is the physical closing of the cabin door and has nothing to do with the gate deadline which is clearly stated in both the COC and on the website. This allows time for the GA to board SB's and, if the flight is overbooked and at risk of oversale, to board those passengers without having to IDB/VDB anyone.
At T-15, if there are no passengers left at the gate, there is nothing holding the flight and it is fine to close up and push.
Clearly frustrating that this was not of OP's making. But, this is not about fault, it is simply about not having been at the gate on time and the GA should not have opined about when the OP could possibly have made it to the gate. But, bad things happen every day that are not of peoples' making and they suffer the price for it.
Jan 5, 2018, 8:26 pm
#22
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Your ticket and the following Conditions of Carriage constitute the contract between you, the passenger, and American Airlines, Inc. ("American") and apply to all transportation provided by American
...
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
- 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
...
You must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft:
- 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure for flights departing from points -within- the U.S., Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands
* The Agent knows that there are 15 people not making it on several different PNRs. They could wait until T-0 to close the door or ask if logistics if something is going on.
* Most importantly, they should never close the door before T-10 if there are outstanding passengers
* Most importantly, they should never close the door before T-10 if there are outstanding passengers
How is "logistics" going to know what's going on? AA doesn't run DFW or Airlink.
Unfortunately, something outside of AA's control caused OP to miss the cutoff time agreed to when buying the ticket. I can't comment on post-missed-flight treatment, but timelines are defined for a reason.
Missed flight in DFW due to Skylink skipping D terminal
Last edited by CPRich; Jan 5, 2018 at 8:46 pm
Jan 5, 2018, 9:33 pm
#23
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There are missing passengers on an extremely large percentage of flights. By these guidelines, most flights would start off 15 minutes late.
How is "logistics" going to know what's going on? AA doesn't run DFW or Airlink.
Unfortunately, something outside of AA's control caused OP to miss the cutoff time agreed to when buying the ticket. I can't comment on post-missed-flight treatment, but timelines are defined for a reason.
Correct. DFW Customer Service - 972-236-4968. [email protected]
How is "logistics" going to know what's going on? AA doesn't run DFW or Airlink.
Unfortunately, something outside of AA's control caused OP to miss the cutoff time agreed to when buying the ticket. I can't comment on post-missed-flight treatment, but timelines are defined for a reason.
Correct. DFW Customer Service - 972-236-4968. [email protected]
Onto timeliness, how about not heading down the jet bridge to close a door until T-10? Which means the door closes around T-9 with the GA back at around T-8. If the OP reached the gate at T-10 and it was already closed and people were already arguing that means it was closed at least several minutes before T-10. It irritates me when I see the doors closed before T-10 when there are still passengers that have not made the flight.
OP, @MarkOK, what was your flight. I believe there is a tool that will tell when the door was closed? Someone know if there is a tool?
Jan 5, 2018, 9:38 pm
#24
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Onto timeliness, how about not heading down the jet bridge to close a door until T-10? Which means the door closes around T-9 with the GA back at around T-8. If the OP reached the gate at T-10 and it was already closed and people were already arguing that means it was closed at least several minutes before T-10. It irritates me when I see the doors closed before T-10 when there are still passengers that have not made the flight.
Doesn't matter what time the door is closed, what matters is whether the passenger was ready to board by T-15
Jan 5, 2018, 9:54 pm
#25
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I don't see what the relevance of T-10 , 9 or 8 is ; AA stipulates that the passenger "must be at the gate and ready to board the aircraft 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure time" ( see https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...f-carriage.jsp ) for travel from U.S. /Puerto Rico, / Virgin Islands and 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure time at other locations
Doesn't matter what time the door is closed, what matters is whether the passenger was ready to board by T-15
Doesn't matter what time the door is closed, what matters is whether the passenger was ready to board by T-15
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ng-process.jsp
We shut the boarding door 10 minutes before departure, so be sure to be at your gate on time.
Jan 5, 2018, 9:58 pm
#26
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My understanding is that T-15 is so they don't give your ticket away to standby passengers and T-10 is when they close the door.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ng-process.jsp
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ng-process.jsp
If there are passengers awaiting seats, then these have to be processed before the door can be closed , not after the door is closed
The OP arrived at the gate at 16:45 for a 16:55 departure - whether the door to aeroplane was open or closed doesn't matter, the passenger failed to comply with requirement to be there 15 minutes before departure
Last edited by Dave Noble; Jan 5, 2018 at 10:04 pm
Jan 5, 2018, 10:11 pm
#27
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If you are not at the gate at T-15, you can be offloaded and denied boarding - if all passengers that were at the gate at T-15 are onboard, then door can be closed
The OP arrived at the gate at 16:45 for a 16:55 departure - whether the door to aeroplane was open or closed doesn't matter, the passenger failed to comply with requirement to be there 15 minutes before departure
The OP arrived at the gate at 16:45 for a 16:55 departure - whether the door to aeroplane was open or closed doesn't matter, the passenger failed to comply with requirement to be there 15 minutes before departure
In my opinion, at minimum, it is a major customer service fail to close it "on time T-15" when so many group of people aren't there. The plane must have been half empty for it to close so early with no standby or people awaiting for upgrades.
Jan 5, 2018, 10:16 pm
#28
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Then they should remove it from the boarding process web page because it is deceptive or add an addendum that one should be there at T-15. What's the point of even mentioning T-10 in the boarding process?
In my opinion, at minimum, it is a major customer service fail to close it "on time T-15" when so many group of people aren't there. The plane must have been half empty for it to close so early with no standby or people awaiting for upgrades.
In my opinion, at minimum, it is a major customer service fail to close it "on time T-15" when so many group of people aren't there. The plane must have been half empty for it to close so early with no standby or people awaiting for upgrades.
The 10 minute message should indeed perhaps be removed, but whether it is there or not does not change the requirement
If all passengers are on board , then no reason not to close it. Even with the 10 minutes closure, the passenger was not there until 10 minutes before departure when the door will be closed anyway
Maybe it was not a busy flight, maybe it was
The passenger arrived late at the gate and was denied boarding in line with the CoC ; why the passenger was late doesn't matter
Jan 5, 2018, 10:44 pm
#29
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Have many DFW - BTR legs (and vice versa) which since 2016 have landed at E-35 (or 36?) through E-38. There's a Pizzaria Uno and Blue Mesa down that way, the Pizzaria Uno will stay open until the last flight on gates E-35+ boards..... the more you know.
Jan 5, 2018, 10:47 pm
#30
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I am with AA on this. After all, the tram is not their responsibility or operation and when you show you got to the airport 2 hours beforehand, the responsibility is not AA's, it's the passengers. The tram being late or not operating correctly is no more a concern of AA's than a Dallas bus breaking down. You could ask for a flat-tire courtesy, but from a legal standpoint AA's hands are clean.