Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Mar 8, 2019, 6:48 pm
#361
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,742
Is AA's official policy now that you can't ever "piece together" segments on an award? That is, you cannot tell the agent there's space from A-B, B-C and C-D, please book me on A-B-C-D? If the exact combination of segments doesn't show up when searching AA.com for A-D, they won't do it?
Mar 8, 2019, 6:51 pm
#362
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
I just did this last night, although partners were included. Economy cabin award ticket. Overall itinerary is PHX-LAX-HKG-BKK. AA on PHX-LAX, CX the rest of the way. Doesn't show searching PHX-BKK, but the individual segments were available, and the agent was happy to put it together for me on one award.
Mar 8, 2019, 8:21 pm
#363
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,549
I just did this last night, although partners were included. Economy cabin award ticket. Overall itinerary is PHX-LAX-HKG-BKK. AA on PHX-LAX, CX the rest of the way. Doesn't show searching PHX-BKK, but the individual segments were available, and the agent was happy to put it together for me on one award.
Mar 8, 2019, 9:48 pm
#364
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
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Well there would be no married segment avaulability issue just for PHX-LAX ( I doubt that AA does married segment availability across carriers ) ; if there is availability for LAX-BKK via HKG , then it wouldn't matter if the search was done sector by sector or done as LAX-BKK ; if there is no availability for LAX-BKK via HKG, I suspect that it would have not been able to be priced out and that the system would have pckek up the lack of availability on the through booking
Mar 9, 2019, 12:00 am
#365
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,549
Mar 9, 2019, 3:12 am
#366
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
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Don't know. Agent said no availability, but I wasn't sitting with her and could not see the query that she typed.
Mar 9, 2019, 9:45 am
#367
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
I'm thinking partners. I had award flights booked JFK-LHR and was able to add legs to/from CDG on both without issue (couldn't find that routing as an option).
Mar 17, 2019, 9:24 am
#368
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IND/NYC/MEX
Programs: AA PPro BA Bronze SPG Gold HH GLD Hyatt Exp
Posts: 1,133
Has anyone been able to downgrade a segment on a mixed class itinerary? I see AAA-BBB-CCC where AAA-BBB is in Y and BBB-CCC is in J, but when I search segment by segment both are available in Y.
This is getting very annoying.
This is getting very annoying.
Mar 20, 2019, 5:45 am
#369
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: BWI
Programs: Everyone!
Posts: 1,024
Ugh, it has been awhile (never availability) so had never heard of this lunacy until now. Been doing the 12AM CST nightly wake up and tonight this married segment thing appears to be hitting me (I swear I probably triggered it myself by searching so much, as every day is open but the day I want:
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
- First Try - All 30K options through old booking tool are 2-stop, long layover itineraries in JFK / LGA / ATL. Normal search on new booking tool for my itinerary shows as costing 57.5K each one way for my preferred routing.
- Second Try - Search using old booking tool for multi-city itinerary (forcing the legs I want). It shows each leg available at the MileSAAver rate (12.5K for the domestic, 30K for the international) for a combined total of 42.5K. Lets me enter all my information, and when I get to the final page to complete, it gives a "flight is no longer available" error and re-selecting those flights now prices at 75K.
- Many More Attempts - Same thing over and over, it is available in multi-city but not confirmable on the last page.
- Final Attempt (so I can go to bed) - Book each leg I want one at a time through old booking tool as its own reservation (one for BWI-MIA at 12.5K each, one for MIA-SCL at 30K each). I put them on hold and am illogically hoping I can call and have them combine the held PNRs into one reservation and get it re-priced based on the award chart.
Last edited by PGHflyer; Mar 25, 2019 at 5:35 am
Mar 20, 2019, 7:10 am
#370
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,438
Ugh, it has been awhile (never availability) so had never heard of this lunacy until now. Been doing the 12AM CST nightly wake up and tonight this married segment thing appears to be hitting me (I swear I probably triggered it myself by searching so much, as every day is open but the day I want:
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
- First Try - Normal search for my itinerary shows as costing 57.5K each one way for my preferred routing. All 30K options are 2-stop, long layover itineraries in JFK / LGA / ATL.
- Second Try - Search for multi-city itinerary (forcing the legs I want). It shows each leg available at the MileSAAver rate (12.5K for the domestic, 30K for the international) for a combined total of 42.5K. Lets me enter all my information, and when I get to the final page to complete, it gives a "flight is no longer available" error and re-selecting those flights now prices at 75K.
- Many More Attempts - Same thing over and over, it is available in multi-city but not confirmable on the last page.
- Final Attempt (so I can go to bed) - Book each leg I want one at a time as its own reservation (one for BWI-MIA at 12.5K each, one for MIA-SCL at 30K each). I put them on hold and am illogically hoping I can call and have them combine the held PNRs into one reservation and get it re-priced based on the award chart.
That said, looking for 2 seats in economy from BWI-SCL shouldn't be that hard, so personally I would not settle for having to book separate tickets or any of this married segment nonsense. Looking this far in advance it's highly likely that better options will open up as well. You have tons of time.
Last point, booking this far in advance it's almost certain you will have multiple schedule changes between now and the flight date. If you see a 30k option all on the same ticket, book those now, even if the routing is less than ideal with multiple connections etc. Then, months later when a schedule change hits and your flights get adjusted, call AA and request the better routing.
Mar 20, 2019, 7:24 am
#371
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: BWI
Programs: Everyone!
Posts: 1,024
Thanks for the tips JJefrey, yeah, I have been monitoring this for a few weeks. I see they release economy AAnytime consistently (for this route at least) at 331 days and then economy MileSAAver at 329 days. Was trying for Feb 12 at 30K. Apparently due to this new Married Segment restriction stuff, I have the separate legs on hold for 42.5K total and will call just to see what happens, but I am not willing to spend an extra 12.5K per ticket for these games. It does seem most other days have this routing available.
Mar 20, 2019, 8:45 am
#372
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
Ugh, it has been awhile (never availability) so had never heard of this lunacy until now. Been doing the 12AM CST nightly wake up and tonight this married segment thing appears to be hitting me (I swear I probably triggered it myself by searching so much, as every day is open but the day I want:
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
Trying book two people in T from BWI to SCL, via BWI-MIA-SCL. Expected each one way ticket to be 30K. Boy am I naive!
- First Try - Normal search for my itinerary shows as costing 57.5K each one way for my preferred routing. All 30K options are 2-stop, long layover itineraries in JFK / LGA / ATL.
- Second Try - Search for multi-city itinerary (forcing the legs I want). It shows each leg available at the MileSAAver rate (12.5K for the domestic, 30K for the international) for a combined total of 42.5K. Lets me enter all my information, and when I get to the final page to complete, it gives a "flight is no longer available" error and re-selecting those flights now prices at 75K.
- Many More Attempts - Same thing over and over, it is available in multi-city but not confirmable on the last page.
- Final Attempt (so I can go to bed) - Book each leg I want one at a time as its own reservation (one for BWI-MIA at 12.5K each, one for MIA-SCL at 30K each). I put them on hold and am illogically hoping I can call and have them combine the held PNRs into one reservation and get it re-priced based on the award chart.
Mar 20, 2019, 11:03 am
#373
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: BWI
Programs: Everyone!
Posts: 1,024
I can confirm "inventory" (there is some shadiness in what is released and what affects it, ex. searching) was released for me for this itinerary for a 2-3 week period every night at 12CST in the order I described (331 - AAnytime, 329 - SAAver).
Also, not sure what combination of luck took place, but I was very easily able to call into the general line (no status for me) and after explaining the error message I was getting, he put me on hold for about 10 minutes to check with the "reference desk" and then came back and said they combined them for me with no phone booking fees and adjusted the price to the appropriate 30K, no problemo.
Somehow I don't bet it will be as easy next time when I book my return in a few weeks, but one can always hope........
Also, not sure what combination of luck took place, but I was very easily able to call into the general line (no status for me) and after explaining the error message I was getting, he put me on hold for about 10 minutes to check with the "reference desk" and then came back and said they combined them for me with no phone booking fees and adjusted the price to the appropriate 30K, no problemo.
Somehow I don't bet it will be as easy next time when I book my return in a few weeks, but one can always hope........
Mar 22, 2019, 3:11 pm
#374
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 23
Apologize in advance if this is the incorrect forum, although this thread seemed more relevant than any in the EY/CX threads. Trying to use MR points to book an AA married segment award from MAN-PHL-SDF. The MAN-PHL leg is only available in conjunction with the PHL-SDF leg. I am unable to get CX or EY phone agents to be able to even see the married availability. I tried explaining that they should do one search for MAN-SDF rather than two searches for MAN-PHL and PHL-SDF, however they still could not understand or replicate that. Is there any trick or specific directions to tell partner phone agents when trying to book one of these awards so that they can see it?
Mar 29, 2019, 2:34 pm
#375
Join Date: May 2000
Location: HH Gold, Marriott Gold, PC Plat, Emirates Silver
Posts: 2,677
Booked LAX-SLC-ORD-XXX for ~6 days from now. Married segments won't book LAX-SLC in FC despite 0/16 FC seats taken. Yes, 0 taken 6 days out. Agent said to me "this won't make sense but...yada yada yada ....and I can not even call anyone". At least I am in MCE and will keep trying to get into FC.
Last edited by mileshound; Mar 30, 2019 at 5:28 am