Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Dec 11, 2018, 7:51 pm
#271
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,901
You are absolutely whizzing into the wind on this one. Married segment availability has been used on purchased fares by U.S. carriers for decades. Decades! The DOT and the FTC haven't touched the practice. They're not going to step in on award tickets.
Accept that AA miles are worth less than they used to be. 2% cash-back cards are the way to go.
Accept that AA miles are worth less than they used to be. 2% cash-back cards are the way to go.
Last edited by rrgg; Dec 11, 2018 at 7:57 pm
Dec 11, 2018, 10:58 pm
#272
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,571
married sectors can lead to availability for a fare for A-C via B whilst there is not availability on one or both of A-B and B-C on a standalone basis s as well as there being availability for A-B and for A-C but not A-C via B
Dec 12, 2018, 8:08 am
#273
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
If I were to summarize my concerns of the unannounced changes, they would be:
1) Decreased award availability requiring connections / married segments
2) Removal of point to point (long sale) award construction using segment availability*
3) Not honoring held/ticketed inventory when making changes (i.e. the entire trip needs to be presently available)
*only have tried domestic, international and/or oneworld partners may change that.
Dec 13, 2018, 10:38 am
#274
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WAS/NYC/LON
Programs: AA EXP, HH DIA, Hyatt DIA
Posts: 286
I'm a bit disappointing that point-to-point ticketing is no longer a thing (either in initially constructing a ticket or modifying existing booked travel).
My biggest issue is if I booked AAA-BBB (economy) and BBB-CCC (bus/first) and AAA-BBB opens up in a higher cabin, I won't be able to change my flight unless BBB-CCC is also open in the higher cabin, even though I already "have a seat". Also prevents a variety of other routing changes. Lesson for me as an EXP is that booking award travel in essentially completely refundable, but changes cannot easily be made to existing itineraries.
These are the new rules I guess, but agree just lowers the value of AA miles.
My biggest issue is if I booked AAA-BBB (economy) and BBB-CCC (bus/first) and AAA-BBB opens up in a higher cabin, I won't be able to change my flight unless BBB-CCC is also open in the higher cabin, even though I already "have a seat". Also prevents a variety of other routing changes. Lesson for me as an EXP is that booking award travel in essentially completely refundable, but changes cannot easily be made to existing itineraries.
These are the new rules I guess, but agree just lowers the value of AA miles.
Dec 13, 2018, 11:21 am
#275
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
Does married segment logic apply to individual flights as well as city pairs?
I'm looking for a Business MileSAAver GNV --> BOS on 12/16. Paying with cash, I can take the 6:02 PM flight out of GNV and connect out of CLT at 8:34 PM. One award option offered is the 6:54 AM flight GNV-CLT connecting to the 8:34 PM flight CLT-BOS. However, taking the 6:02 PM flight out of GNV will only allow a connection to CLT-BOS the next morning. So it seems like both segments have SAAver space...just not together. Is that because of married segments?
I'm looking for a Business MileSAAver GNV --> BOS on 12/16. Paying with cash, I can take the 6:02 PM flight out of GNV and connect out of CLT at 8:34 PM. One award option offered is the 6:54 AM flight GNV-CLT connecting to the 8:34 PM flight CLT-BOS. However, taking the 6:02 PM flight out of GNV will only allow a connection to CLT-BOS the next morning. So it seems like both segments have SAAver space...just not together. Is that because of married segments?
Which is sort of explained by this:
The response I received from AA was thoughtful but disappointing. It was basically explained that there is a cost associated with each flight (or combination thereof) that needs to be below a threshold to qualify for saver award. So the individual segments may be below the threshold for saver, but combined not. I challenged this of course with how then does adding segments (in the married segment examples) decrease cost below a threshold when clearly adding a flight can only increase AA's cost.
Last edited by swag; Dec 13, 2018 at 2:07 pm
Dec 13, 2018, 12:56 pm
#276
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,571
My biggest issue is if I booked AAA-BBB (economy) and BBB-CCC (bus/first) and AAA-BBB opens up in a higher cabin, I won't be able to change my flight unless BBB-CCC is also open in the higher cabin, even though I already "have a seat". Also prevents a variety of other routing changes. Lesson for me as an EXP is that booking award travel in essentially completely refundable, but changes cannot easily be made to existing itineraries.
Dec 13, 2018, 9:05 pm
#277
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
That isn't the case - if you have A-B in economy and B-C in business class , then you need A-B to be availabe in business class when booked in conjunction with B-C. If you were to check for A-C and it showed U1 for A-B and U0 for B-C, you would be able to rebook A-B in business class and so then have A-C via B in business class
Post #201 gives the exact same example with the opposite outcome with multiple HUCA attempts. This has been my experience as well - essentially if aa.com doesn’t currently show the entire itinerary available they can’t (or shouldn’t) book it (or modify using what you currently hold in combination with what is currently available).
Most of these data points have been domestic, so maybe it changes with long hauls, which are the most critical due to OW availability, but I’m not optimistic.
Dec 13, 2018, 9:23 pm
#278
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,571
You’ve said this twice, but are you sure ? Recent experience ?
Post #201 gives the exact same example with the opposite outcome with multiple HUCA attempts. This has been my experience as well - essentially if aa.com doesn’t currently show the entire itinerary available they can’t (or shouldn’t) book it (or modify using what you currently hold in combination with what is currently available).
Most of these data points have been domestic, so maybe it changes with long hauls, which are the most critical due to OW availability, but I’m not optimistic.
Dec 13, 2018, 10:04 pm
#279
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Thanks for the explanation. Just to make sure I understand, what you are saying is search for A-C via B in a GDS (EF), and if you get U1 on the needed segment (and not necessarily the other you already hold), then this is do-able? That would seem pretty rare, as married segments in my experience usually converge on the same inventory for each segment (unless a cabin is sold out of course). So in Post #201's case (speculating using your explanation), U1 was seen A-B but not A-C via B for the A-B segment? Appreciate the clarification.
Dec 13, 2018, 10:14 pm
#280
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,416
"improving" an already issued award ticket with better flights?
So how is this married segment stuff now working if I've had an award ticket issued with a less-than-ideal connection time, and now I find a connecting flight that is leaving earlier. To change the ticket, do I need BOTH flight segments to now be available or can the agent simply swap out the better second flight for the original flight that I booked?
I fear that the logic rules now require both flights to be available. This is a shame because one of the (few?) nice features of the AAdvantage program was the ability to fiddle with award bookings without paying sky-high change fees. If you now need all your connecting flights to be available at the same time to book them, you're going to get worse award itineraries.
I fear that the logic rules now require both flights to be available. This is a shame because one of the (few?) nice features of the AAdvantage program was the ability to fiddle with award bookings without paying sky-high change fees. If you now need all your connecting flights to be available at the same time to book them, you're going to get worse award itineraries.
Dec 13, 2018, 10:35 pm
#281
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,571
Thanks for the explanation. Just to make sure I understand, what you are saying is search for A-C via B in a GDS (EF), and if you get U1 on the needed segment (and not necessarily the other you already hold), then this is do-able? That would seem pretty rare, as married segments in my experience usually converge on the same inventory for each segment (unless a cabin is sold out of course). So in Post #201's case (speculating using your explanation), U1 was seen A-B but not A-C via B for the A-B segment? Appreciate the clarification.
Dec 13, 2018, 11:09 pm
#282
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ABQ & RNO
Programs: AA EXP 4MM, Piper Dakota, Admirals Club, Hyatt Glob, Hilton Gold, Wyndham Diamond
Posts: 1,425
That isn't the case - if you have A-B in economy and B-C in business class , then you need A-B to be availabe in business class when booked in conjunction with B-C. If you were to check for A-C and it showed U1 for A-B and U0 for B-C, you would be able to rebook A-B in business class and so then have A-C via B in business class
Dec 14, 2018, 9:29 am
#283
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC, LAX, HKG
Posts: 286
I'm a bit disappointing that point-to-point ticketing is no longer a thing (either in initially constructing a ticket or modifying existing booked travel).
My biggest issue is if I booked AAA-BBB (economy) and BBB-CCC (bus/first) and AAA-BBB opens up in a higher cabin, I won't be able to change my flight unless BBB-CCC is also open in the higher cabin, even though I already "have a seat". Also prevents a variety of other routing changes. Lesson for me as an EXP is that booking award travel in essentially completely refundable, but changes cannot easily be made to existing itineraries.
These are the new rules I guess, but agree just lowers the value of AA miles.
My biggest issue is if I booked AAA-BBB (economy) and BBB-CCC (bus/first) and AAA-BBB opens up in a higher cabin, I won't be able to change my flight unless BBB-CCC is also open in the higher cabin, even though I already "have a seat". Also prevents a variety of other routing changes. Lesson for me as an EXP is that booking award travel in essentially completely refundable, but changes cannot easily be made to existing itineraries.
These are the new rules I guess, but agree just lowers the value of AA miles.
What if the ticket is ticketed by a OW partner?
Dec 14, 2018, 10:50 am
#284
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
If the latter, that would imply that existing segment inventory can be maintained even if it isn't currently available (as was in the example), as long as the changing segment is available in the origin to destination search (which wouldn't be visible on aa.com because that is all or nothing). Again, my experience searching with EF has been AA award AA inventory on connections is either available for both or neither, so I'm not sure how practical this is on an AA itinerary.
But, this could be a relief for the long haul scenario where one already holds inventory on the long haul Oneworld segment(s) and wants to modify the AA portion because those generally are not linked the same way.
Corrections appreciated.
Dec 14, 2018, 12:46 pm
#285
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,901
Saying it's not specific to AA or awards is surely true, but isn't there a big difference here? With cash tickets you just pay more. With an award you end up paying at least double, sometimes 400% more miles if you had to switch to an anytime award.