Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Dec 24, 2019, 11:58 am
#526
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 29,970
This was a business saver one way award. Lhr-phl was already confirmed in saver J but only saver coach was available at the time of booking. I set an EF alert and it popped up yesterday that the saver J opened for the phl -dfw leg.
This was an existing saver J booking.
Dec 24, 2019, 12:52 pm
#527
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,302
I thought that if you held Saver J on a connecting married segment itinerary, say A-B-C, and you wanted to change one segment, say B-C, you only needed the new B-C available via married segments, and that A-B didn't need to still available on a married basis. But I certainly not sure, Dave Noble might know.
If that's the case, I'm not sure it's an exception, as opposed to an uniformed twitter agent.
If that's the case, I'm not sure it's an exception, as opposed to an uniformed twitter agent.
Dec 24, 2019, 12:55 pm
#528
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 29,970
Twitter response:
“Hello! It's a married connection, so we have to rebook LHR-PHL as well. Unfortunately, it's not available to rebook on that segment, so we're unable to change it”
“Hello! It's a married connection, so we have to rebook LHR-PHL as well. Unfortunately, it's not available to rebook on that segment, so we're unable to change it”
Dec 31, 2019, 3:05 pm
#529
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AA EP; HH Diamond; Marriott Plat; IHG Plat; National EE
Posts: 342
Married segment logic on websaver awards
There have been numerous complaints on business-class award seats not being available on a particular segment depending on routing, e.g. LAX-AKL not available, but DEN-LAX-AKL available.
So I was looking at award travel for some gulf coast destinations (MOB, PNS, etc) from DFW as well as from COS and DEN connecting through DFW. All of the connecting flights show websaver awards from 10 to 12K RT, while if starting in DFW flying the same legs to and from the destination the award at best is a websaver of 20K+ RT.
Married segment logic on paid tickets makes sense, but for award redemption those reasons don't hold up. My guess is the AA thought process is to provide better availability when originating where AA has competition, i.e. make the program have more perceived value to those who have a choice.
So I was looking at award travel for some gulf coast destinations (MOB, PNS, etc) from DFW as well as from COS and DEN connecting through DFW. All of the connecting flights show websaver awards from 10 to 12K RT, while if starting in DFW flying the same legs to and from the destination the award at best is a websaver of 20K+ RT.
Married segment logic on paid tickets makes sense, but for award redemption those reasons don't hold up. My guess is the AA thought process is to provide better availability when originating where AA has competition, i.e. make the program have more perceived value to those who have a choice.
Dec 31, 2019, 6:56 pm
#531
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,021
Married segment logic on paid tickets makes sense, but for award redemption those reasons don't hold up. My guess is the AA thought process is to provide better availability when originating where AA has competition, i.e. make the program have more perceived value to those who have a choice.
Dec 31, 2019, 11:42 pm
#532
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,413
Jan 1, 2020, 12:25 am
#533
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,302
Jan 1, 2020, 2:46 am
#534
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
5k web special hidden city
will AA do anything to me if i book a one way domestic 3-leg 5k award and not fly the last segment ?
Jan 1, 2020, 9:39 am
#535
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,438
Jan 6, 2020, 3:01 pm
#536
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: MSN
Posts: 125
Pretty sure I am experiencing married segment issues for the first time.
Trying to do MSP-SCL. Seeing a lot of "saver" availability with garbage connections and layovers like MSP-PHL(overnight)-MIA-SCL. When I try to search just MIA-SCL...insane prices. Any work around like finding a different way to MIA then hopping on there? Can anyone report if calling in to drop segments still works?
Trying to do MSP-SCL. Seeing a lot of "saver" availability with garbage connections and layovers like MSP-PHL(overnight)-MIA-SCL. When I try to search just MIA-SCL...insane prices. Any work around like finding a different way to MIA then hopping on there? Can anyone report if calling in to drop segments still works?
Jan 6, 2020, 3:19 pm
#537
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,438
Pretty sure I am experiencing married segment issues for the first time.
Trying to do MSP-SCL. Seeing a lot of "saver" availability with garbage connections and layovers like MSP-PHL(overnight)-MIA-SCL. When I try to search just MIA-SCL...insane prices. Any work around like finding a different way to MIA then hopping on there? Can anyone report if calling in to drop segments still works?
Trying to do MSP-SCL. Seeing a lot of "saver" availability with garbage connections and layovers like MSP-PHL(overnight)-MIA-SCL. When I try to search just MIA-SCL...insane prices. Any work around like finding a different way to MIA then hopping on there? Can anyone report if calling in to drop segments still works?
Mar 7, 2020, 2:44 pm
#538
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: VA
Programs: AA EXP, DL Gold, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Wyndham Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 293
I was able to do this today. I wanted to do a trip into either FAI or ANC, and fly back from whichever I didn't fly into. (Doing day trips while in Alaska - and it doesn't matter which direction I go).
A few weeks ago I was able to book (U) RIC-ORD-ANC-FAI outbound, and (U) ANC-FAI-ORD-RIC on the way back.
Today I decided to call and see if I can drop the final segment of each leg to eliminate the extra flights, which reverses my intra-Alaska travel. There was no (U) space for the 'new' itinerary, but the EXP agent had no issues doing it. It took about 10 mins.
A few weeks ago I was able to book (U) RIC-ORD-ANC-FAI outbound, and (U) ANC-FAI-ORD-RIC on the way back.
Today I decided to call and see if I can drop the final segment of each leg to eliminate the extra flights, which reverses my intra-Alaska travel. There was no (U) space for the 'new' itinerary, but the EXP agent had no issues doing it. It took about 10 mins.
Nov 12, 2020, 2:17 am
#539
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
Absurd AAdvantage Routing
Couldn’t figure out the right thread to stick this in. Mods - please move as appropriate.
Looking for LAX-SYD in January. Found numerous routings from SNA/LGB/ONT-PHX-LAX-SYD. 😳 What’s the point of flying to and from PHX?
Looking for LAX-SYD in January. Found numerous routings from SNA/LGB/ONT-PHX-LAX-SYD. 😳 What’s the point of flying to and from PHX?
Nov 12, 2020, 4:23 am
#540
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: AA EXP/LTP, BA GGL/CCR/GfL, HH D/LTD, SPG/MR Plat/LTP
Posts: 10,075
Besides that, your observation is one of many fascinations and different opinions in frequent flying.
When you qualify for elite status, you cheer over more miles, flights & segments, whereas when redeeming those miles, extra segments and flights might not be that popular.
The PHX connection is the easiest way to fly LGB-LAX. Just as has been the suggestion for transfer between the two largest airports in London, LHR and LGW, namely flights via AMS
