Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Jan 3, 2019, 11:18 am
#316
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
SAAVER bc/fc was available for each segment LAS-CLT and CLT-JFK, but NOT for LAS-CLT-JFK, I let my booking which was on hold expire. Two days later ("magically") LAS-CLT-JFK was available for 25K miles.
Jan 3, 2019, 7:14 pm
#317
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,629
Availability has always come and gone and come (and gone...) I see on the routes that I follow that continues under this new reality. There is or will be some shift but the parameters are not clear to me yet. The trends that I know of are old news by now.
Jan 3, 2019, 7:44 pm
#318
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
. One merely has to use the Help menu above to surface the Glossary - link. There’s also an airport code lookup, Rules, etc.Moderator
Jan 4, 2019, 12:52 am
#319
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: SPG Gold
Posts: 38
I didn't make the distinction clear in my post but my issue was the married segment stuff and the fact the call center has in fact got worse over the years with the agents becoming increasingly rude and impatient/incompetent. I've found the international Aadvantage call centers to be much more competent and helpful.
Jan 10, 2019, 2:48 pm
#320
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Jan 13, 2019, 10:53 am
#321
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
1) Segments are available individually with valid connection, but not origin to destination. This is the opposite of married segment availability increase. If you called in to book it or modify one of your holds, you would be read the riot act. We probably need a separate thread to discuss this.
2) Inconsequential time later, everything is available. What was emphatically impossible previously, now is no problem.
All of this for a 2MM customer. They can't get that squared away on a domestic flight for him(her)? Talk about a way to piss off your customers for no real business gain. How many people actually buy aanytime awards? Let alone the peak pricing ones?
The high volatility of award inventory in conjunction with the hard line and origin to destination availability calculation process is laughable. Valuation isn't that dithering at 2x the price. Wrong tool for the job. Either keep it how it was with segment constructions or go to dynamic pricing, the half-pregnant version is asinine.
AA is free to do whatever they want, but they should at least publish the rules/process.
1) Point to point construction applicability - what about partners? Customers should be able to confirm in advance their itinerary is available prior to calling to book, no clue as how to do that on mixed OW itineraries.
2) Change of segment(s) on held and ticketed itineraries - what availability is required? What about mixed carrier tickets?
3) To Complete Itinerary and To Complete Party - still exist?
4) EPs expanded availability? Even UA IT figured out how to display this on their website and in GDS. It may be worthless in practice like SDC, but at least I can see it exists without having to waste my time and phone agents time calling.
Jan 14, 2019, 7:26 pm
#322
Join Date: May 2000
Location: HH Gold, Marriott Gold, PC Plat, Emirates Silver
Posts: 2,679
I think I ran into a different flavor today. I was booking XXX-CLT-DFW 25k FC award. The CLT-DFW segment always had FC availability. However, depending on which connecting CLT-DFW flight I picked, the 1st leg XXX-CLT exact same flight was sometimes in FC and sometimes in FC. I have never seen a certain flight availability dependent on which connection you pick. Two of the 6 connection options had the 1st flight in coach.
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 Coach
CLT-DFW depart 11:55 arrive 2:00 FC
but
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 FC
CLT-DFW depart 1:20 arrive 3:19 FC
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 Coach
CLT-DFW depart 11:55 arrive 2:00 FC
but
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 FC
CLT-DFW depart 1:20 arrive 3:19 FC
Jan 14, 2019, 7:46 pm
#323
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I think I ran into a different flavor today. I was booking XXX-CLT-DFW 25k FC award. The CLT-DFW segment always had FC availability. However, depending on which connecting CLT-DFW flight I picked, the 1st leg XXX-CLT exact same flight was sometimes in FC and sometimes in FC. I have never seen a certain flight availability dependent on which connection you pick. Two of the 6 connection options had the 1st flight in coach.
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 Coach
CLT-DFW depart 11:55 arrive 2:00 FC
but
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 FC
CLT-DFW depart 1:20 arrive 3:19 FC
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 Coach
CLT-DFW depart 11:55 arrive 2:00 FC
but
XXX-CLT Depart 7:30 arrive 10:00 FC
CLT-DFW depart 1:20 arrive 3:19 FC
Jan 14, 2019, 8:12 pm
#324
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ABQ & RNO
Programs: AA EXP 4MM, Piper Dakota, Admirals Club, Hyatt Glob, Hilton Gold, Wyndham Diamond
Posts: 1,426
Wanted a DFW-SCL Business Award, no joy. Had to do MIA-DFW-SCL to get the Business Award. But, I am coming from RNO and no award availability so I’ll need to buy another ticket that will go RNO-DFW-MIA in order to start the award trip. Lovely��
This makes it impossible to get EF alerts as they don’t do married segments, and if they did, where would you start to look?
This makes it impossible to get EF alerts as they don’t do married segments, and if they did, where would you start to look?
Last edited by 236Dakota; Jan 14, 2019 at 8:17 pm
Jan 16, 2019, 10:41 am
#325
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: All of them, Katie
Posts: 224
My home airport is a small regional airport and I have noticed many of the absurdities discussed here. Using AA miles on AA flights has become increasingly frustrating and feels punitive.
I wonder if anyone knows of a OW airline partner that still pieces together segments to create awards, and would therefore allow some of these AA flights using married segment 'logic' to be booked with their own mileage currency. For example, if DCA-PHL and PHL-YUL are both independently available as saver with a <4 hr connection between them, but DCA-PHL-YUL is not available as saver on aa.com, is there a partner that will price DCA-PHL-YUL as a single saver award by piecing segments together?
I wonder if anyone knows of a OW airline partner that still pieces together segments to create awards, and would therefore allow some of these AA flights using married segment 'logic' to be booked with their own mileage currency. For example, if DCA-PHL and PHL-YUL are both independently available as saver with a <4 hr connection between them, but DCA-PHL-YUL is not available as saver on aa.com, is there a partner that will price DCA-PHL-YUL as a single saver award by piecing segments together?
Jan 16, 2019, 12:38 pm
#326
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 539
I really don't get the logic of the "reverse married segment availability". I want to fly CHS-BOS and there are no nonstop options, fine. CHS-PHL is available in U (biz/first), as is PHL-BOS, with a valid connection time. However, CHS-PHL-BOS as a married segment only allows the first CHS-PHL leg in U, and the PHL-BOS leg is only showing as available in T (econ). So frustrating! I booked the routing with the 2nd econ leg and even though on its own, that leg has availability in biz, the AAgent would not let me swap. Even just a year ago, I was definitely allowed to swap individual legs if a seat opened up in U.
Jan 16, 2019, 12:51 pm
#327
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,629
Well, I think that we have to assume that the effect that we see is the effect that AA wanted. If availability is harder to piece together and changes are harder to make then that's what AA intended.
Jan 16, 2019, 1:14 pm
#328
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,587
I really don't get the logic of the "reverse married segment availability". I want to fly CHS-BOS and there are no nonstop options, fine. CHS-PHL is available in U (biz/first), as is PHL-BOS, with a valid connection time. However, CHS-PHL-BOS as a married segment only allows the first CHS-PHL leg in U, and the PHL-BOS leg is only showing as available in T (econ). So frustrating! I booked the routing with the 2nd econ leg and even though on its own, that leg has availability in biz, the AAgent would not let me swap. Even just a year ago, I was definitely allowed to swap individual legs if a seat opened up in U.
I wonder if anyone knows of a OW airline partner that still pieces together segments to create awards, and would therefore allow some of these AA flights using married segment 'logic' to be booked with their own mileage currency. For example, if DCA-PHL and PHL-YUL are both independently available as saver with a <4 hr connection between them, but DCA-PHL-YUL is not available as saver on aa.com, is there a partner that will price DCA-PHL-YUL as a single saver award by piecing segments together?
Jan 16, 2019, 2:48 pm
#329
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: All of them, Katie
Posts: 224
I asked because up until a few years ago, it was possible to convince many booking engines to ignore married segment logic when pricing paid segments in an analogous way. If fare class K was available for DCA-PHL and K was also available for PHL-YUL, but only H was available DCA-PHL-YUL, aa.com gives you the H fare using married segment logic. However, up until a few years ago, there were booking engines that you could trick into giving you the K DCA-PHL-YUL fare using a multi-city booking, entering DCA-PHL and PHL-YUL separately. I used to routinely save money doing this (AFAIK, this doesn't work anymore for paid fares with any of the booking engines I've tried). It wouldn't surprise me if some partner airline with poorly integrated booking systems still uses availability on each leg to piece together an award booking, similar to how some revenue booking systems would (recently) allow you to piece together paid fares when individual segments were available at a given fare. Airlines can't ignore the availability, but they could be using the wrong availability.
Jan 17, 2019, 8:11 am
#330
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 539
That's exactly what I'm saying ISN'T happening. A seat in U did indeed open up on the PHL-BOS leg, but I can't switch to it because if you search CHS-BOS, it doesn't show up as having U space on the full journey.