Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Jan 10, 2018, 3:52 pm
#61
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,556
Then what is the term for what I’m referring to? I’ve run into many examples of that, would be interested in seeing an example of what you are referring to (say in domestic 48 states so routing rules don’t come into play)
I always thought it promoted connecting flights over non stops, not vice versus.In your example, which segments are married and cannot be separated.
A-B plus B-C are available but A-C via B isnt
or
A-C via B is available when one oe both of A-B and B-C are unavailable
The issue that was being referred to is where B-C is not available standalone whilst A-C via B is
Jan 11, 2018, 4:54 am
#62
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
I suspect that's true for an award search, but I think it will throw a wrinkle in setting up EF availability alerts. To the best of my knowledge, availability alerts, including for awards, have to be set up on a segment-by-segment basis. Do I have that right? If so, does anyone have thoughts on how to set up an award availability alert that factors in married segment availability? That is, if DFW-ORD-LHR is available but ORD-LHR is not, I'd like to get an alert nonetheless.
Cheers,
LBBZman
Cheers,
LBBZman
Jan 11, 2018, 9:29 am
#63
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
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[QUOTE=Dave Noble;29276527]Married sector availability can mean
....
A-C via B is available when one or both of A-B and B-C are unavailable [\QUOTE]
Which airline has implemented that?
....
A-C via B is available when one or both of A-B and B-C are unavailable [\QUOTE]
Which airline has implemented that?
Jan 11, 2018, 9:45 am
#64
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,556
I don't know what AA is setting up, but such availability restrictions can definitely exist
Last edited by Dave Noble; Jan 11, 2018 at 11:22 am
Jan 11, 2018, 11:01 am
#65
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
I've seen that with CX too. I.E. SIN-HKG-ORD will be available for J through-booking, but either single sector won't.
Jan 11, 2018, 8:59 pm
#66
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Posts: 2,264
I also think they are using search data to make awards disappear.
I.e. i've been searching a particular city pair on a low demand time period midweek.
just that day has gone to no availability
I.e. i've been searching a particular city pair on a low demand time period midweek.
just that day has gone to no availability
Jan 11, 2018, 11:04 pm
#68
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: LAX/FAO
Posts: 355
I ran into this a couple days ago while looking at LAX-SYD awards on AS's website. It showed that LAX-SYD on AA was available for economy, but not business or first. But it also offered BUR-SEA-LAX-SYD (with LAX-SYD on AA) in first. I should have taken a screen shot; I can't replicate it now.
Jan 13, 2018, 11:35 am
#69
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So there are sometimes connections AA-LATAM that show up in searches through other OW sites. (I haven't researched to see if the individual flights exist as awards, or only the connections.)
(LATAM is the new name for LAN after the merger with TAM.)
Jan 13, 2018, 3:26 pm
#71
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
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I don't think sdsearch has demonstrated compellingly that it happened; it would be interesting to see if someone could show that clearly.
Jan 13, 2018, 3:31 pm
#72
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,556
See the post by sdsearch above, where they (think they) were finding domestic AA flights that were available for connections to IB long haul but (possibly) not standalone. AA certainly could make their own segments available as part of a connection but not individually (I recall a while ago reports here that this was fairly routinely possible by a request to revenue management if you called in, at least for some AAdvantage members). It would be harder/impossible for AA to make a partner segment available as part of a married sector when it's not available individually.
I don't think sdsearch has demonstrated compellingly that it happened; it would be interesting to see if someone could show that clearly.
I don't think sdsearch has demonstrated compellingly that it happened; it would be interesting to see if someone could show that clearly.
Jan 13, 2018, 3:43 pm
#73
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What sdsearch thought they observed was the other way around. IB had availability BOS-MAD. AA did not have availability on LAX-BOS (standalone) but apparently did have availability on LAX-BOS-MAD (as well as BOS-MAD standalone). That is certainly within AA's powers to do; whether they do is not really clear (because what sdsearch really observed was that LAX-BOS wasn't available after, not before, they booked their ticket).
Jan 14, 2018, 9:23 pm
#74
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What sdsearch thought they observed was the other way around. IB had availability BOS-MAD. AA did not have availability on LAX-BOS (standalone) but apparently did have availability on LAX-BOS-MAD (as well as BOS-MAD standalone). That is certainly within AA's powers to do; whether they do is not really clear (because what sdsearch really observed was that LAX-BOS wasn't available after, not before, they booked their ticket).
Anyway, I think I was wrong. I just did some other searches for research purposes only, and found that on Sep 8 at this moment there is LAX-(AA)-JFK-(IB)-MAD-LIS as well as LAX-(AA)-MIA-(IB)-MAD-LIS in U, but the very same 6 am-ish flights LAX-JFK and LAX-MIA are indeed available by themselves. (There's no nonstop availability on LAX-JFK at any other time of day, though. There is, btw, multiple "pages" of 1-stop U availability on LAX-XXX-JFK that day. And, btw, if all you want to fly is LAX-JFK, you have to pay 7.5k miles more to do the nonstop than to do a 1-stop.)
Jan 15, 2018, 11:17 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
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Posts: 299
Just tried this and have been told by two different Exec Plat agents that American sent a memo 'within the last week' stating that married segments cannot be split. In order to drop a first segment, award availability must be otherwise present on the second segment in order to maintain booking on the second segment.
I had a booked Saaver Award ticket, A-B-C. B-C was what I wanted. But now in order to drop A-B and keep B-C, there must be Saaver availability on B-C to complete the change. So this negates the whole intent of unlocking this secret inventory.
This loophole may now be closed, be advised. Anyone getting a different outcome?
I had a booked Saaver Award ticket, A-B-C. B-C was what I wanted. But now in order to drop A-B and keep B-C, there must be Saaver availability on B-C to complete the change. So this negates the whole intent of unlocking this secret inventory.
This loophole may now be closed, be advised. Anyone getting a different outcome?