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My Colleague Was Bumped from Upgraded F Seat by a Celeb

My Colleague Was Bumped from Upgraded F Seat by a Celeb

Old Dec 16, 2017, 3:48 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by beachfan
What is this well known rule about when it is ok to displace an existing boarded passenger into a lower cab to sell a fare or accomodate a SDC on a paid fare, and how does this rule differentiate award tickets from paid tickets in J and to upgraded tickets from coach? Serious question.
The CoC has a link to a separate page which it states governs the terms for preferred seat selection. This page includes the following bullets (bolding mine)

  • We make every effort to ensure you get your chosen seat, but seat assignments are not guaranteed.
    • We reserve the right to change seats for operational, safety or security reasons.
    • You must check in at least 30 minutes before departure and be at the gate 15 minutes before departure or you may lose your seat.
    • We will attempt to assign children under 15 with at least one adult they're traveling with.
I make no distinction between booked class, instrument used, etc. Do not put words in my mouth. Seat assignment, regardless of how you came to have it, is not guaranteed. Period.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 4:33 am
  #32  
nrr
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If I purchased a FC seat and they downgrade me to Y (while boarding) I should still be allowed to CANCEL for full refund(?) On intl flts AA would run into the baggage must fly with pax rule--they would have to retrieve and return my checked item, which could considerably delay the flight. [I was on a JFK-ZRH, a woman became ill, it took 90 minutes to retrieve her checked items.]
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 5:38 am
  #33  
 
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maybe I am missing something, how did AA sell a F seat on a full flight?
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 5:43 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by fotographer
maybe I am missing something, how did AA sell a F seat on a full flight?
I am assuming it's timing. The system upgraded CK but has not cleared out F inventory while the revenue system processes the sales. Or someone manually overrode the system and forced the downgrade.

I am with OP, if it were me I would have been pissed and not ok with 7500 as a CK. But think about it this way, I am only a second-tier pax on public transit, maybe I won't care after an exhausting week.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 6:16 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by andersonCooper
Or someone manually overrode the system and forced the downgrade.
This is most likely what happened. Possible Deion was booked on a later flight in full F and wanted to move to an earlier flight, so AA bent its back to accommodate him.

They deliberately overbooked F at the gate/airport - no question about that.

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Old Dec 16, 2017, 6:30 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by kb9522
Correct. UA should have fought it in court. They would have won.
If you're interested in protecting your bottom line, leave PR to the professionals.
Calchas and Lost like this.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 7:34 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by CPRich
No one so far has asked "who's that?" about Neon.
I can if you like.

Honestly, first time I've heard the name. But it doesn't matter. I could Google it if I were interested.

Originally Posted by kb9522


No need to be pedantic. You can’t be annoyed about something if you agreed to allow it to happen.
I would certainly be annoyed if someone ejected me from my reserved seat, even though I am aware it could happen.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 7:59 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by golfingboy


This is most likely what happened. Possible Deion was booked on a later flight in full F and wanted to move to an earlier flight, so AA bent its back to accommodate him.

They deliberately overbooked F at the gate/airport - no question about that.

In that case, OP is the probably the only upgraded pax, while all other F are sold (or a few other CK who have/has higher EQD). No wonder AA doesn't care at all about loyalty now, F got sold, CK got bumped, EXP becomes the new Plat.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 8:36 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by kb9522


No need to be pedantic. You cant be annoyed about something if you agreed to allow it to happen.
That statement lacks logic. I can absolutely be annoyed, when accepting such a condition is the only way I am ever allowed to use a particular product or service - and when the condition is one that shouldn't occur in the first place.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 9:42 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by kb9522


The CoC has a link to a separate page which it states governs the terms for preferred seat selection. This page includes the following bullets (bolding mine)
We make every effort to ensure you get your chosen seat, but seat assignments are not guaranteed.
  • We reserve the right to change seats for operational, safety or security reasons.
  • You must check in at least 30 minutes before departure and be at the gate 15 minutes before departure or you may lose your seat.
  • We will attempt to assign children under 15 with at least one adult they're traveling with.

I make no distinction between booked class, instrument used, etc. Do not put words in my mouth. Seat assignment, regardless of how you came to have it, is not guaranteed. Period.
It certainly isn't clear that the situation described is an operational, safety or security reason. Unless the assertion is that "operational" gives them carte blanche, and in that case, most definitely isn't unambiguous. Valid reasons are broken seat, weights and balances, FAM. Or inadvertent issue of duplicate boarding passes. Not intentionally forcing an oversold situation at the gate after boarding. Certainly, the rules cited don't make any distinction about award ticket, upgrade, or paid fare, so I don't see how the CoC could allow this and not allow the booting of passengers to middle seats in the back on paid F when someone with more $$ comes along.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 10:10 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by nrr
I should still be allowed to CANCEL for full refund(?)
Yeah... no. Maybe if you had a fully refundable fare? I dont know the rules about it though.

You would definitely be entitled to a refund of the fare difference though.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 10:22 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by beachfan
It certainly isn't clear that the situation described is an operational, safety or security reason. Unless the assertion is that "operational" gives them carte blanche, and in that case, most definitely isn't unambiguous.
It is unambiguous. Seat assignments are not guaranteed. Operational is not in the definitions section and is not defined anywhere else in the document to my knowledge... the common definition does in fact give them carte blanche.

Valid reasons are broken seat, weights and balances, FAM. Or inadvertent issue of duplicate boarding passes. Not intentionally forcing an oversold situation at the gate after boarding.
Unfortunately your opinion doesnt match up with the agreement. Youre certainly right that we, as flyers, should be pressing carriers to shift more restrictions to them instead of accepting all the risk ourselves. But as you probably know, an overwhelming majority of people dont even bother reading what they agreed to, let alone have the wherewithal to effect change.

Certainly, the rules cited don't make any distinction about award ticket, upgrade, or paid fare, so I don't see how the CoC could allow this and not allow the booting of passengers to middle seats in the back on paid F when someone with more $$ comes along.
They dont make a distinction because they dont have to. The applicability section (my words, not theirs) states these rules apply to anyone holding a ticket period. See below:

Your ticket and the following Conditions of Carriage constitute the contract between you, the passenger, and American Airlines, Inc. ("American") and apply to all transportation provided by American (including transportation on codeshare partners*) between points in the United States (including Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands).

Foreign air transportation is governed by applicable tariffs on file with the Department of Transportation.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 11:28 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by PHL
Downgrading a CK member after being seated would indicate there were no other lesser statuses and the cabin was full of paid F tickets. Otherwise, might the GA have gone to the lowest elite on the totem pole? I guess not totally out of the question on heavy routes, and it wouldn't be the first story of a complimentary upgrade being rescinded.
or they could have sat the entitled "celeb," who in this case is a washed up 90's athlete in coach instead of upgrading him and downgrading a CK member.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 11:36 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by kb9522


It is unambiguous. Seat assignments are not guaranteed. Operational is not in the definitions section and is not defined anywhere else in the document to my knowledge... the common definition does in fact give them carte blanche.



Unfortunately your opinion doesn’t match up with the agreement. You’re certainly right that we, as flyers, should be pressing carriers to shift more restrictions to them instead of accepting all the risk ourselves. But as you probably know, an overwhelming majority of people don’t even bother reading what they agreed to, let alone have the wherewithal to effect change.



They don’t make a distinction because they don’t have to. The applicability section (my words, not theirs) states these rules apply to anyone holding a ticket period. See below:



There are plenty of people who would interpret "operational" not to give them carte blanche. The fact that there is widespread disagreement on what it means is proof that it's ambiguous.
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Old Dec 16, 2017, 11:37 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
or they could have sat the entitled "celeb," who in this case is a washed up 90's athlete in coach instead of upgrading him and downgrading a CK member.
If the celeb paid the walk-up F fare, he was entitled to the seat in every sense.
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