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AA Travel Visa Errors and Issues for Two Honeymooners

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Old Dec 6, 17, 2:52 pm
  #46
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
From what I can see, the OP has not clarified exactly what the visa stated - until the OP states what the exact details of documentation held stated, it is speculation - asserting that AA was in the wrong without the information , seems flawed

AA may have been in the wrong or it may not have been
Since OP does say both of the relevant embassies repeatedly confirmed the visa was correct for the itinerary, I think we can safely stop getting caught up in the very FT-esque speculation about whether this was the unicorn of a Schengen C visa with limited territorial validity.....
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Old Dec 6, 17, 3:08 pm
  #47
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Originally Posted by CrazyJ82 View Post
Since OP does say both of the relevant embassies repeatedly confirmed the visa was correct for the itinerary, I think we can safely stop getting caught up in the very FT-esque speculation about whether this was the unicorn of a Schengen C visa with limited territorial validity.....
If there is actual fault partly depends on the “valid for” box and how it was filled out, and on IATA / AA for not investing in a help desk to counsel agents who know to use TIMATIC / TIMATICWEB, but not the intricacies behind the TIMATIC language they read or visa issuance.

Again, the OP or traveler has the opportunity to put together a claim with substantiating documentation and sending it to the AA Ececutive Offices. Directed and informed action rather than speculation.

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Old Dec 6, 17, 3:13 pm
  #48
 
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Originally Posted by mvoight View Post
I had thought UK was not a participant is Schengen visas.
That's correct. The UK and Ireland are not Schengen states.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 4:07 pm
  #49
 
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So next question...is there a line in the CoC that says AA can interpret diplomatic regulations and policies at its own discretion?
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Old Dec 6, 17, 4:38 pm
  #50
 
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Originally Posted by arlflyer View Post
So next question...is there a line in the CoC that says AA can interpret diplomatic regulations and policies at its own discretion?
Interpretation, when required, is always at the discretion of the interpreter. These rules and how they are presented within AA's system are not so simple that confusion is only the result of idiocy.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 5:02 pm
  #51
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I verified and Lisa's Schengen Visa does say Etats Schengen. If this is the case, then why did the Timatic system deny Lisa boarding?

Also, we have written to AA several times within the last 6 months. They did provide some compensation, but not full compensation. To me, it is the principal - Lisa went to three embassies to make sure that she did have proper documentation. She did - Etats Schengen. We recieved a letter from the Italian embassy verifying that her Visa was worded the way that they wanted and even stated in their letter that American Airlines was wrong to deny boarding. We are being told that we did everything right and that American screwed up. If this is the case, we just want American to make Lisa and Joe "whole." Why should Lisa and Joe foot the bill for American's mistakes?
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Old Dec 6, 17, 7:05 pm
  #52
 
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Originally Posted by khibner View Post
I verified and Lisa's Schengen Visa does say Etats Schengen. If this is the case, then why did the Timatic system deny Lisa boarding?

Also, we have written to AA several times within the last 6 months. They did provide some compensation, but not full compensation. To me, it is the principal - Lisa went to three embassies to make sure that she did have proper documentation. She did - Etats Schengen. We recieved a letter from the Italian embassy verifying that her Visa was worded the way that they wanted and even stated in their letter that American Airlines was wrong to deny boarding. We are being told that we did everything right and that American screwed up. If this is the case, we just want American to make Lisa and Joe "whole." Why should Lisa and Joe foot the bill for American's mistakes?
It wasn't TIMATIC that denied boarding, it was the incompetent AA employee.

There was a case not so long ago where an AA employee improperly denied boarding over a visa issue with China. In that case, it was AA incorrectly interpreting China's transit without visa waiver. It took reaching out to AA on twitter to get the complaint routed to the proper department, but AA eventually made them whole.

http://https://www.flyertalk.com/for...&postcount=591
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Old Dec 6, 17, 7:07 pm
  #53
 
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Originally Posted by millionmiler View Post
Interpretation, when required, is always at the discretion of the interpreter. These rules and how they are presented within AA's system are not so simple that confusion is only the result of idiocy.
Correct, but if the AA agent was confused and misinterpreted what TIMATIC meant, that is still AA's responsibility. "I was confused" is not a release from their liability in this case. They should have known, and been trained to know.

Originally Posted by khibner View Post
I verified and Lisa's Schengen Visa does say Etats Schengen. If this is the case, then why did the Timatic system deny Lisa boarding?
TIMATIC did not deny Lisa boarding. An AA agent incorrectly denied her boarding based on a faulty interpretation of the rules. Get documentation of your communications with the embassies (your questions and their answers) that led you to get the visa as you did, as well as their verification that what is listed in TIMATIC is consistent with their (the embassy's) regulations. It will then be much easier to prove that AA misinterpreted the rules and is at fault and that you are due compensation.

Take that documentation and write to the people and addresses that JDiver listed above, and be clear that you have also prepared complaints with the DOT and are ready to pursue the compensation in court.

Also, if you are not the wronged party, make sure it is the wronged party who is actually communicating directly with AA, the DOT and the court.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 7:10 pm
  #54
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Filing a claim in Small Claims Court is now your best, and probably only, option.

You might also also want to file a complaint with the Dept. Of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 7:21 pm
  #55
 
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Originally Posted by khibner View Post
I verified and Lisa's Schengen Visa does say Etats Schengen. If this is the case, then why did the Timatic system deny Lisa boarding?

Also, we have written to AA several times within the last 6 months. They did provide some compensation, but not full compensation. To me, it is the principal - Lisa went to three embassies to make sure that she did have proper documentation. She did - Etats Schengen. We recieved a letter from the Italian embassy verifying that her Visa was worded the way that they wanted and even stated in their letter that American Airlines was wrong to deny boarding. We are being told that we did everything right and that American screwed up. If this is the case, we just want American to make Lisa and Joe "whole." Why should Lisa and Joe foot the bill for American's mistakes?
I'm sure it will give you little solace, but my Thai GF had problems with agents, including immigration agents at passport control, with her Schengen. Following the rules sometimes needs to be explained to people as we got hers at the Italian visa office in Bangkok as we were spending more time there, even though our flights were in and out of VIE. Multi-entry and they still asked for another visa for the second entry. Even the ticket counter agent for OS at LAX had trouble understanding the days of the week thing, claiming her visa had expired on Oct 10th, even though it was only the 5th. You just have to shake your head and wonder where they find these people. Of course, my favorite was at the Italian consulate, the woman asked what day we were leaving, told her Aug 31st and she asked if we were crazy as Aug only had 30 days. You just need a good laugh sometimes, Hahaha. If it weren't so sad that is.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 8:33 pm
  #56
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Originally Posted by CrazyJ82 View Post
Since OP does say both of the relevant embassies repeatedly confirmed the visa was correct for the itinerary, I think we can safely stop getting caught up in the very FT-esque speculation about whether this was the unicorn of a Schengen C visa with limited territorial validity.....
Love the unicorn reference. OP clarified no territorial restrictions in #51 anyway.

Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
Take that documentation and write to the people and addresses that JDiver listed above, and be clear that you have also prepared complaints with the DOT and are ready to pursue the compensation in court.

Also, if you are not the wronged party, make sure it is the wronged party who is actually communicating directly with AA, the DOT and the court.
Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
Filing a claim in Small Claims Court is now your best, and probably only, option.

You might also also want to file a complaint with the Dept. Of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division.
OK that's my answer to (3) then, thanks. Maybe DOT before SCC.
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Old Dec 6, 17, 9:03 pm
  #57
 
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Originally Posted by khibner View Post
I verified and Lisa's Schengen Visa does say Etats Schengen. If this is the case, then why did the Timatic system deny Lisa boarding?

Also, we have written to AA several times within the last 6 months. They did provide some compensation, but not full compensation. To me, it is the principal - Lisa went to three embassies to make sure that she did have proper documentation. She did - Etats Schengen. We recieved a letter from the Italian embassy verifying that her Visa was worded the way that they wanted and even stated in their letter that American Airlines was wrong to deny boarding. We are being told that we did everything right and that American screwed up. If this is the case, we just want American to make Lisa and Joe "whole." Why should Lisa and Joe foot the bill for American's mistakes?
I would suggest the Courts are the only option now, given that compensation HAS been provided. The complaint now is that it was not enough....... and its hard to see AA coughing up more without being made to...
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Old Dec 6, 17, 10:00 pm
  #58
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How do I find this prior post? I clicked on the link and did not get to that specific post. Thanks!
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Old Dec 6, 17, 10:07 pm
  #59
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Originally Posted by khibner View Post
How do I find this prior post? I clicked on the link and did not get to that specific post. Thanks!
This is the thread you started. Has been moved and re-titled
Go to page 1:- top or bottom right of [desktop] screen
Or click on your name (left) in the post just made "find more posts by ..."

Last edited by Mwenenzi; Dec 6, 17 at 11:01 pm
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Old Dec 6, 17, 10:39 pm
  #60
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Originally Posted by khibner View Post
How do I find this prior post? I clicked on the link and did not get to that specific post. Thanks!
What prior post/link are you referring to? If it's the "#51" in percysmith's post, that's not actually a link to a post, but FlyerTalk makes it look like one because of the hash sign. Instead, you can just scroll to post number 51, the numbers are in the upper right of each post.

ETA: this should get you there:
AA Travel Visa Errors and Issues for Two Honeymooners

If you're talking about AndyAA's post about the China visa waiver experience, that's a bad link; try this:
144 TWOV China- Denied Boarding by AA
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