CK Boarding Before Wheelchair Preboards?
Dec 1, 2017, 7:04 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lax
Posts: 3,888
The ADA does not apply to commercial aviation and the ACA simply requires appropriate accommodation. Pre-boarding is provided for the convenience of the carrier, the individual requiring special assistance and the other passengers. It is an easy way of assuring that special assistance passengers are able to board without undue hassle and have the extra time it may take to be safely seated.
A carrier could theoretically board each special assistance passenger in his regular boarding order and simply hold the boarding process up so that the passenger safely boards. Not particularly efficient, but perfectly legal.
A carrier could theoretically board each special assistance passenger in his regular boarding order and simply hold the boarding process up so that the passenger safely boards. Not particularly efficient, but perfectly legal.
Dec 2, 2017, 9:22 am
#18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: I fly too much and stay at too many hotels
Posts: 489
Just make it consistent!
Recent experiences have included the above as well as:
- We now invite our CK and zone one pax to board - no pre call for CK as a group
- We now invite our CK pax to board - wait .5 seconds - then - we now invite zone 1 to board. I have not been able to clear the scrum at the lane, so now the zone 1 pax are looking at me like I am muscling ahead of them - which I am because I was called to board
- No CK pre-call at all
- "I'm sorry, we are running late, so we did not call CK"
- Called by name and asked to wait by the door until boarding starts
- Escorted through the scrum by the CK agent much to the annoyance of the zone 1 pax who are queued up
- Driven gate to gate on the tarmac avoiding the boarding line completely - (selfishly confess this is my favorite)
I am aware of how first world this issue is and the the comments above sound very entitled. However, if they are going to create a program to recognize certain flyers, the apply the program criteria consistently and create the recognition. Of course, I can always just hang back and board whenever I want - problem solved and I will almost always be able to board before zone 2 - except when the CK agent recognizes me and is waiving me up.
Dec 3, 2017, 11:52 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
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Posts: 1,133
Thanks for the input, everyone. It didn't affect my travel at all, but I just found it odd. The inconsistency and randomness is what bothers me. Tell me what the rules are and follow them - don't make them up as you go along.
Dec 4, 2017, 5:46 pm
#22
Suspended
Join Date: May 2013
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I’ve always seen wheelchairs discreetly boarded first by having their name pages before any pre-boarding takes place...then official announcement for CK then Group 1 etc.....happened again today on LGA-ORD even on an hour delayed flight. FC still got a full PDB and coats hung too!
Dec 4, 2017, 6:31 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Programs: AA PPRO (OW Emerarld), BA Silver, DL PM
Posts: 491
The ADA does not apply to commercial aviation and the ACA simply requires appropriate accommodation. Pre-boarding is provided for the convenience of the carrier, the individual requiring special assistance and the other passengers. It is an easy way of assuring that special assistance passengers are able to board without undue hassle and have the extra time it may take to be safely seated.
A carrier could theoretically board each special assistance passenger in his regular boarding order and simply hold the boarding process up so that the passenger safely boards. Not particularly efficient, but perfectly legal.
A carrier could theoretically board each special assistance passenger in his regular boarding order and simply hold the boarding process up so that the passenger safely boards. Not particularly efficient, but perfectly legal.
14 CFR 382:"§ 382.93 Must carriers offer preboarding to passengers with a disability?
As a carrier you must offer preboarding to passengers with a disability who self-identify at the gate as needing additional time or assistance to board, stow accessibility equipment, or be seated."
CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations. No, as a CK member you haven't "earned" this privilege but rather the gate agents are just lazy, ill-informed, or a combination of both. Some on the board will seize on the fact that it doesn't state explicitly before whom disabled passengers must be pre-boarded, however, I think it's safe to assume that because these regulations were initially created in the mid-90s prior to the creation of five different tiers of elite status and nine different boarding groups that the regulation was intended to have those passengers with a disability pre-board prior to any other passengers.
Will it upset my travel plans if a few CK's pre-board before I do? I highly doubt it, yet I'm quite sure I would point out to the gate agent that they are making a legal error. But in great scheme of things as long as they don't open the cattle call until I'm seated and my wheelchair has been taken care of by the ramp agents I think I'll be okay.
Dec 4, 2017, 9:29 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
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Posts: 21,422
I don't know where you came up with any of this because virtually every single word is legally incorrect. The implementing regulations promulgated under the ACAA specifically require airlines to pre-board any passenger with a disability who identifies themselves as needing same:
14 CFR 382:"§ 382.93 Must carriers offer preboarding to passengers with a disability?
As a carrier you must offer preboarding to passengers with a disability who self-identify at the gate as needing additional time or assistance to board, stow accessibility equipment, or be seated."
CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations. No, as a CK member you haven't "earned" this privilege but rather the gate agents are just lazy, ill-informed, or a combination of both. Some on the board will seize on the fact that it doesn't state explicitly before whom disabled passengers must be pre-boarded, however, I think it's safe to assume that because these regulations were initially created in the mid-90s prior to the creation of five different tiers of elite status and nine different boarding groups that the regulation was intended to have those passengers with a disability pre-board prior to any other passengers.
Will it upset my travel plans if a few CK's pre-board before I do? I highly doubt it, yet I'm quite sure I would point out to the gate agent that they are making a legal error. But in great scheme of things as long as they don't open the cattle call until I'm seated and my wheelchair has been taken care of by the ramp agents I think I'll be okay.
14 CFR 382:"§ 382.93 Must carriers offer preboarding to passengers with a disability?
As a carrier you must offer preboarding to passengers with a disability who self-identify at the gate as needing additional time or assistance to board, stow accessibility equipment, or be seated."
CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations. No, as a CK member you haven't "earned" this privilege but rather the gate agents are just lazy, ill-informed, or a combination of both. Some on the board will seize on the fact that it doesn't state explicitly before whom disabled passengers must be pre-boarded, however, I think it's safe to assume that because these regulations were initially created in the mid-90s prior to the creation of five different tiers of elite status and nine different boarding groups that the regulation was intended to have those passengers with a disability pre-board prior to any other passengers.
Will it upset my travel plans if a few CK's pre-board before I do? I highly doubt it, yet I'm quite sure I would point out to the gate agent that they are making a legal error. But in great scheme of things as long as they don't open the cattle call until I'm seated and my wheelchair has been taken care of by the ramp agents I think I'll be okay.
In the OP's example disabled passengers still preboarded.
Dec 5, 2017, 12:37 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 713
I don't understand why CK and First isn't boarded before pre-board. In my experience, no one wants to a) get on board and b) get settled into their seat, overhead stowed, etc faster than either of these groups. Would be nice if F pax didn't have to wait behind preboards, and likewise keeping preboards from feeling rushed by CK/F pax. Perhaps in "turn left" 2L boarding situations at the very least...
Dec 5, 2017, 1:54 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
I don't understand why CK and First isn't boarded before pre-board. In my experience, no one wants to a) get on board and b) get settled into their seat, overhead stowed, etc faster than either of these groups. Would be nice if F pax didn't have to wait behind preboards, and likewise keeping preboards from feeling rushed by CK/F pax. Perhaps in "turn left" 2L boarding situations at the very least...
Not all preboards turn right at 2L.
And the point of preboarding is to give the pax extra time and freedom of mobility unimpaired by other pax and also not disturbing other pax. If a preboard is sitting in 2A and you are in 2C, you will then have to get up and stand in the aisle holding your PDB while they transfer from an aisle chair, making them feel rushed, uncomfortable, and undignified as often the transfer is slow and awkward, not to mention disturbing the CK/F and their PDB.
In any event, as pointed out earlier, it really isn't a matter that the carrier has much choice in: "CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations."
Dec 5, 2017, 2:14 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Milwaukee
Programs: AA Pl, KL Platinum for Life
Posts: 384
Yesterday, in CLT, was energetically waived to the front ahead of three wheelchair pax and boarded first. This has happened at other stations as well. I always have said to the CK agent in these cases, "I am happy to wait for the wheelchair or elderly pax to board first." In each case, I received a variation of, "You are CK - you are supposed to board first." It is always uncomfortable and IMO creates the impression for others that I am trying to be a DYKWIA pax.
Recent experiences have included the above as well as:
I am aware of how first world this issue is and the the comments above sound very entitled. However, if they are going to create a program to recognize certain flyers, the apply the program criteria consistently and create the recognition. Of course, I can always just hang back and board whenever I want - problem solved and I will almost always be able to board before zone 2 - except when the CK agent recognizes me and is waiving me up.
Recent experiences have included the above as well as:
- We now invite our CK and zone one pax to board - no pre call for CK as a group
- We now invite our CK pax to board - wait .5 seconds - then - we now invite zone 1 to board. I have not been able to clear the scrum at the lane, so now the zone 1 pax are looking at me like I am muscling ahead of them - which I am because I was called to board
- No CK pre-call at all
- "I'm sorry, we are running late, so we did not call CK"
- Called by name and asked to wait by the door until boarding starts
- Escorted through the scrum by the CK agent much to the annoyance of the zone 1 pax who are queued up
- Driven gate to gate on the tarmac avoiding the boarding line completely - (selfishly confess this is my favorite)
I am aware of how first world this issue is and the the comments above sound very entitled. However, if they are going to create a program to recognize certain flyers, the apply the program criteria consistently and create the recognition. Of course, I can always just hang back and board whenever I want - problem solved and I will almost always be able to board before zone 2 - except when the CK agent recognizes me and is waiving me up.
Do you call people SCRUM to their name? How nasty.
Dec 7, 2017, 10:19 am
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,133
Dec 7, 2017, 10:57 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DTW
Programs: AA Exec Plt , Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 592
Not all preboards turn right at 2L.
And the point of preboarding is to give the pax extra time and freedom of mobility unimpaired by other pax and also not disturbing other pax. If a preboard is sitting in 2A and you are in 2C, you will then have to get up and stand in the aisle holding your PDB while they transfer from an aisle chair, making them feel rushed, uncomfortable, and undignified as often the transfer is slow and awkward, not to mention disturbing the CK/F and their PDB.
In any event, as pointed out earlier, it really isn't a matter that the carrier has much choice in: "CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations."
And the point of preboarding is to give the pax extra time and freedom of mobility unimpaired by other pax and also not disturbing other pax. If a preboard is sitting in 2A and you are in 2C, you will then have to get up and stand in the aisle holding your PDB while they transfer from an aisle chair, making them feel rushed, uncomfortable, and undignified as often the transfer is slow and awkward, not to mention disturbing the CK/F and their PDB.
In any event, as pointed out earlier, it really isn't a matter that the carrier has much choice in: "CK members boarding prior to an individual with a disability that has requested to preboard is a violation of the ACAA regulations."
Dec 9, 2017, 7:22 pm
#30
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
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