Thousands of December AA flights scheduled without pilots?
Dec 2, 2017, 9:22 am
#256
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Not sure if we will ever know, but I would like to believe that the APA could have resolved their concerns more discretely, without airing dirty laundry in the media, further undermining THEIR airline, some loss in business.
Dec 2, 2017, 9:36 am
#257
Join Date: May 2010
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The union contract directs how the airline and union work together. It may define how the airline is permitted to formally make an offer, but it likely also defines how the union can formally respond (doubt it's via the NYT). We could argue that both sides are "wrong" in this trivial administrative matter (how they communicate).
Most citizens don't work for AA and those that are party to this negotiation wouldn't be permitted to discuss it here. Therefore, this is entirely an issue of public relations and reputation (for AA and the APA). The public saw AA make an offer. The public saw the union reject the offer for reasons other than the offer's merit. The public did not see the union respond in a way that shows they desired to resolve an issue in the interest of their customers. The following press release from AA management thanks everyone - including the union.
Regardless of what the contract says and what the parties say now: AA management, from the public vantage point, took the high road while the APA did not.
PS: Look back at the Toyota unintended acceleration problems around 2004. Toyota was technically correct in their responses to the public, but still lost their reputation and many many $millions because they failed to properly manage the story. Being contractually correct didn't help.
Most citizens don't work for AA and those that are party to this negotiation wouldn't be permitted to discuss it here. Therefore, this is entirely an issue of public relations and reputation (for AA and the APA). The public saw AA make an offer. The public saw the union reject the offer for reasons other than the offer's merit. The public did not see the union respond in a way that shows they desired to resolve an issue in the interest of their customers. The following press release from AA management thanks everyone - including the union.
Regardless of what the contract says and what the parties say now: AA management, from the public vantage point, took the high road while the APA did not.
PS: Look back at the Toyota unintended acceleration problems around 2004. Toyota was technically correct in their responses to the public, but still lost their reputation and many many $millions because they failed to properly manage the story. Being contractually correct didn't help.
Dec 2, 2017, 2:01 pm
#258
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I have no connection to AA or APA other than having worked for one of AA's regional airlines over two decades ago.
Neither was anyone else in this thread including those who seem to know what APA was thinking "behind closed doors".
See my post #147 earlier in this thread.
When you have a contractual relationship with another party you can not unilaterally decide to go outside that contract to address a problem. You either work within the contract or you negotiate an exception. If AA management had first gone to the APA, when the problem was discovered, this issue could have been resolved quickly and without anyone outside of AA being aware of it. Once AA management decided to work with APA a resolution was reached very quickly. If the APA wanted to block a resolution, there would be no agreement in principle.
APA was working within the constraints of the Railway Labor Act by filing a presidential grievance over the company's contract violation. That is the only option that they have under the RLA.
I'll assume you're not and so weren't in these negotiations with AA yourself.
The NY Times published a statement from the union that AA had offered 1.5x for pilots to come back. That same person said that the airline wasn't permitted to make such an offer. Seems pretty clear to me - as an impartial person in this matter with no AA bookings nor airline employment - that AA mgt had made an attempt to rectify the situation and that the union was the blocker
When you have a contractual relationship with another party you can not unilaterally decide to go outside that contract to address a problem. You either work within the contract or you negotiate an exception. If AA management had first gone to the APA, when the problem was discovered, this issue could have been resolved quickly and without anyone outside of AA being aware of it. Once AA management decided to work with APA a resolution was reached very quickly. If the APA wanted to block a resolution, there would be no agreement in principle.
APA was working within the constraints of the Railway Labor Act by filing a presidential grievance over the company's contract violation. That is the only option that they have under the RLA.
Dec 2, 2017, 2:05 pm
#259
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: LAX
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Not sure whether what I'm experiencing is a result from AA's snafu, but I just booked my holiday with the mrs and was trying to select seats.
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
Dec 2, 2017, 3:05 pm
#260
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
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Posts: 3,502
Not sure whether what I'm experiencing is a result from AA's snafu, but I just booked my holiday with the mrs and was trying to select seats.
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
Dec 11, 2017, 12:13 pm
#261
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
Not sure whether what I'm experiencing is a result from AA's snafu, but I just booked my holiday with the mrs and was trying to select seats.
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
Lo and behold, the only seat that I was unable to select is the only segment that is operated by AA (everything else is either partner code share or Eagle operated by regional guys). Reso shows a 330-200 for PHL-MAD, system says seat map unavailable, EXP desk says there may be an equipment change. Asked if it's because of the holiday snafu she discredited the news story. After I hung up the phone I saw another story about APA discrediting AA saying everything is still messed up.
Should I play it safe and fly with another airline. I'm still within my 24hr for free cancellation
And I didn't even try to extort my company over it. Imagine that.
Dec 11, 2017, 12:21 pm
#262
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Dec 11, 2017, 12:36 pm
#263
Suspended
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From Forbes today: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christi...o#2fd34c074027
Dec 20, 2017, 7:51 pm
#265
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From Forbes today: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christi...o#2fd34c074027
Dec 21, 2017, 9:44 pm
#269
Join Date: Jun 2005
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My daughter was delayed nearly two hours last evening on an LAX-AUS flight due to missing pilots. The delay was not posted or announced until well after scheduled boarding time and the GAs could not get info on where the pilots were coming from for quite a while. Of course, that sort of thing can and does happen any time but it all smelled like a last minute scramble to cover a flight that may not have had a scheduled crew.