Aug 12, 19, 10:37 am
Last edit by: Prospero
AA established DFW-KEF / Keflavik International Airport for Reykjavik, Iceland, a seasonal route, on 7 June 2018 using a 75L (international, lie flat seats) model 756-200.
AA announced the changing of this flight to PHL-KEF effective 4 Jun 2020 with the same 75L aircraft type.l
Philadelphia – Keflavik, 10:15 pm – 8:00 am, Flight AA232
Keflavik – Philadelphia, 11:00 am – 1:30 pm, Flight AA231
AA announced the changing of this flight to PHL-KEF effective 4 Jun 2020 with the same 75L aircraft type.l
Philadelphia – Keflavik, 10:15 pm – 8:00 am, Flight AA232
Keflavik – Philadelphia, 11:00 am – 1:30 pm, Flight AA231
Seasonal Route DFW-KEF Reykjavik B757 —> PHL-KEF Jun 2020
Nov 14, 17, 6:47 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,234
I posted this on View From the Wing:
My hunch that all these new tourists is making Icelandic lodging even more ridiculously expensive seems to be true. BTW, for Americans, the price increase is even more painful because the dollar has declined 30% against the local currency (much. much worse than the euro) in the past 2 years.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/0...ase-60-percent
This is an interesting development. I assume there is no commercial need for airline service from DFW to Reykjavik — yet alone for 3 airlines to fly the route nonstop. Iceland air service seems like a bubble to me; perhaps not as bad as Cuba service last year, but still pretty bubbly. I’ve been to Iceland, and liked it, but it is not — or at least SHOULD not be — a mass market tourist destination. It’s a good destination for folks who like to self-drive through rugged nature — kind of like a more developed Patagonia — but I honestly don’t know that many people who like that. Reykjavik itself has modest charms, and — like the rest of the country — is obscenely expensive. Given the tiny population (335,000 people on the whole island) the spike in demand from all these new flights will undoubtedly make lodging and other services on the island even more expensive.
What I suspect is going on is that AA sees an opportunity to weaken WOW and Icelandair without doing too much financial damage to itself. The major carriers already seem to have the upper hand in the transatlantic battle against the new low fare airlines — their transatlantic unit revenue is increasing, while the low fare airlines RASMs are declining. So I think AA wants to inflict more pain, in the hope its competitors pull out. I can think of no other reason why AA would launch this flight.
EDIT:What I suspect is going on is that AA sees an opportunity to weaken WOW and Icelandair without doing too much financial damage to itself. The major carriers already seem to have the upper hand in the transatlantic battle against the new low fare airlines — their transatlantic unit revenue is increasing, while the low fare airlines RASMs are declining. So I think AA wants to inflict more pain, in the hope its competitors pull out. I can think of no other reason why AA would launch this flight.
My hunch that all these new tourists is making Icelandic lodging even more ridiculously expensive seems to be true. BTW, for Americans, the price increase is even more painful because the dollar has declined 30% against the local currency (much. much worse than the euro) in the past 2 years.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/0...ase-60-percent
Last edited by iahphx; Nov 14, 17 at 6:55 pm Reason: more
Nov 14, 17, 6:58 pm
#19
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 5,817
Nov 14, 17, 7:29 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: AA Gold, Enterprise PLT, Marriott Gold
Posts: 604
Yuck, another TATL on a 757, no thanks.
JFK-KEF or PHL-KEF would be one thing, but 7 hours DFW-KEF and 8 hours back, no thanks
Makes sense for AA to only use such a small plane, just saying from a comfort perspective for me.
JFK-KEF or PHL-KEF would be one thing, but 7 hours DFW-KEF and 8 hours back, no thanks
Makes sense for AA to only use such a small plane, just saying from a comfort perspective for me.
Nov 14, 17, 8:53 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Posts: 875
This seems like a defensive move, but I wouldn't be surprised if AA was looking into this route before WOW/Icelandair announced KEF-DFW. The USA-Iceland market is growing exponentially right now and it is very inconvenient to connect in Europe due to backtracking. UA is starting seasonal EWR-KEF and DL has year round JFK-KEF and seasonal MSP-KEF (although it could be argued MSP is defensive as well).
WOW/Icelandair rely on connecting passengers to Europe, so I doubt they will leave the market even with AA.
WOW/Icelandair rely on connecting passengers to Europe, so I doubt they will leave the market even with AA.
Nov 14, 17, 11:59 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Nov 15, 17, 12:13 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
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Posts: 9,198
Personally theres a zero % chance I'd set foot on either Wow or Icelandair (no bed, no fly) but I also wouldn't be trying to fly to Europe via KEF and nor would any other high yield passenger. I just can't wrap my head around the logic of this. The target market for these flights to EU via KEF are by their nature very low yield, the competitors are LCCs, and its unlikely a business traveler is going to go DFW-KEF-LHR (of which there are only 2 KEF-LHR flights a day...which could make for a very long trip) when a nonstop is available. Perhaps AA has some data or thinking I'm missing but I'd not be surprised if these routes don't last too long.
Nov 15, 17, 12:25 am
#26
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 4,113
Now that the 757's on TATL routes have lay flat business seats, I'm not really sure what the big concern is. Less chance of a middle seat in Y then pretty much everything but the 767. And you can bet that the 757 routes wouldn't be viable on anything larger, so would be unlikely to exist on AA to begin with.
Nov 15, 17, 12:34 am
#27
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,154
Here's the part I don't get, and maybe I'm missing something, if they are defending against the one-stop EU transfer....on whom does an AA flyer connect to from KEF? I have to imagine that Wow and/or Icelandair have far more connecting flights to Europe from KEF than OW partners will, AA has zero and OW has a grand total of 5 options out of KEF to LCY, LHR, MAD, DME and HEL and I'd surmise those flights have far less frequency than Wow or Icelandair would have.
Personally theres a zero % chance I'd set foot on either Wow or Icelandair (no bed, no fly) but I also wouldn't be trying to fly to Europe via KEF and nor would any other high yield passenger. I just can't wrap my head around the logic of this. The target market for these flights to EU via KEF are by their nature very low yield, the competitors are LCCs, and its unlikely a business traveler is going to go DFW-KEF-LHR (of which there are only 2 KEF-LHR flights a day...which could make for a very long trip) when a nonstop is available. Perhaps AA has some data or thinking I'm missing but I'd not be surprised if these routes don't last too long.
Personally theres a zero % chance I'd set foot on either Wow or Icelandair (no bed, no fly) but I also wouldn't be trying to fly to Europe via KEF and nor would any other high yield passenger. I just can't wrap my head around the logic of this. The target market for these flights to EU via KEF are by their nature very low yield, the competitors are LCCs, and its unlikely a business traveler is going to go DFW-KEF-LHR (of which there are only 2 KEF-LHR flights a day...which could make for a very long trip) when a nonstop is available. Perhaps AA has some data or thinking I'm missing but I'd not be surprised if these routes don't last too long.
DL has been flying JFK-KEF for years now, and UA is also starting up EWR-KEF 6/18, so AA is the last one to jump in. Its a leisure destination and DL is full most flights, I know doesnt mean they are making $$, but if they werent they would have pulled out long ago.
WOW just started up to JFK and EWR and Icelandair has been flying to JFK for years all year long and either this past year or "16 started up with EWR
I doubt any of the US3 can compete with the LCCs since the US3 dont fly onwards from KEF and having to rely on their alliance partners should jack-up the fare. I think AAs thinking is KEF has become a hot spot so lets try and compete by trying to get the WC and MW folks interested in going. Which may work from citys that dont have non-stop flights but if I was in LA Id rather fly non-stop then via via DFW,JFK or EWR. Years ago when we earned RDMs based on mileage that was something else, now being fare based cheap fares = little to no RDMs, EQMs are not important to me
Nov 15, 17, 6:23 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Nov 15, 17, 6:49 am
#29
Suspended
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Posts: 102,103
I posted this on View From the Wing:
My hunch that all these new tourists is making Icelandic lodging even more ridiculously expensive seems to be true. BTW, for Americans, the price increase is even more painful because the dollar has declined 30% against the local currency (much. much worse than the euro) in the past 2 years.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/0...ase-60-percent
This is an interesting development. I assume there is no commercial need for airline service from DFW to Reykjavik — yet alone for 3 airlines to fly the route nonstop. Iceland air service seems like a bubble to me; perhaps not as bad as Cuba service last year, but still pretty bubbly. I’ve been to Iceland, and liked it, but it is not — or at least SHOULD not be — a mass market tourist destination. It’s a good destination for folks who like to self-drive through rugged nature — kind of like a more developed Patagonia — but I honestly don’t know that many people who like that. Reykjavik itself has modest charms, and — like the rest of the country — is obscenely expensive. Given the tiny population (335,000 people on the whole island) the spike in demand from all these new flights will undoubtedly make lodging and other services on the island even more expensive.
What I suspect is going on is that AA sees an opportunity to weaken WOW and Icelandair without doing too much financial damage to itself. The major carriers already seem to have the upper hand in the transatlantic battle against the new low fare airlines — their transatlantic unit revenue is increasing, while the low fare airlines RASMs are declining. So I think AA wants to inflict more pain, in the hope its competitors pull out. I can think of no other reason why AA would launch this flight.
EDIT:What I suspect is going on is that AA sees an opportunity to weaken WOW and Icelandair without doing too much financial damage to itself. The major carriers already seem to have the upper hand in the transatlantic battle against the new low fare airlines — their transatlantic unit revenue is increasing, while the low fare airlines RASMs are declining. So I think AA wants to inflict more pain, in the hope its competitors pull out. I can think of no other reason why AA would launch this flight.
My hunch that all these new tourists is making Icelandic lodging even more ridiculously expensive seems to be true. BTW, for Americans, the price increase is even more painful because the dollar has declined 30% against the local currency (much. much worse than the euro) in the past 2 years.
http://icelandreview.com/news/2017/0...ase-60-percent
This is about AA's TATL JV market -- well beyond just KEF.
Nov 15, 17, 7:29 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
Here's the part I don't get, and maybe I'm missing something, if they are defending against the one-stop EU transfer....on whom does an AA flyer connect to from KEF? I have to imagine that Wow and/or Icelandair have far more connecting flights to Europe from KEF than OW partners will, AA has zero and OW has a grand total of 5 options out of KEF to LCY, LHR, MAD, DME and HEL and I'd surmise those flights have far less frequency than Wow or Icelandair would have.
Personally theres a zero % chance I'd set foot on either Wow or Icelandair (no bed, no fly) but I also wouldn't be trying to fly to Europe via KEF and nor would any other high yield passenger. I just can't wrap my head around the logic of this. The target market for these flights to EU via KEF are by their nature very low yield, the competitors are LCCs, and its unlikely a business traveler is going to go DFW-KEF-LHR (of which there are only 2 KEF-LHR flights a day...which could make for a very long trip) when a nonstop is available. Perhaps AA has some data or thinking I'm missing but I'd not be surprised if these routes don't last too long.
Personally theres a zero % chance I'd set foot on either Wow or Icelandair (no bed, no fly) but I also wouldn't be trying to fly to Europe via KEF and nor would any other high yield passenger. I just can't wrap my head around the logic of this. The target market for these flights to EU via KEF are by their nature very low yield, the competitors are LCCs, and its unlikely a business traveler is going to go DFW-KEF-LHR (of which there are only 2 KEF-LHR flights a day...which could make for a very long trip) when a nonstop is available. Perhaps AA has some data or thinking I'm missing but I'd not be surprised if these routes don't last too long.
