American CEO Doug Parker Attacks Mileage Runs...
Oct 27, 2017, 5:42 pm
#16
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Mr. Parker considers himself a businessman, but he's picky about who gives him money? It's not like the MR folks were gaming a system; they were held to the same terms and conditions everyone else was tied to.
So, they changed them after they saw how Delta did it. If he wished to, he could have changed the system to be completely EQ Dollar based (but that would require originality from a "oh, let's do what the other guy's doing" small airline CEO who found himself running the largest in the Americas).
IMO he has repeated his animus for frequent flyers who are apparently flying for reasons he doesn't consider legitimate, for flyers expecting their status perquisites to be fulfilled and us - FlyerTalkers - as a group. Frankly, I'm tired of the incessant whingeing. Heck, man, you're the one at the stick; if you don't like the route, change it. SMH.
"Good day, ...., what's your reason for flying today!"
1) "I'm going to Disneyland!"
"Well, we certainly wish you'd decided to go yesterday instead of two months ago, that you traveled more often and in a higher class of service, but we'll make sure you get no more than you paid for."
2) "To service a client, as I do every week."
"Oh, yes, and thank you for flying with us. Your upgrade has come through; here's your new boarding pass."
3) The price was great, I've always wanted to visit Lisbon and it'll maintain my EP another year."
"Hmh! Well, your money is okay, I guess, but we don't really consider you a legitimate traveler and you're second rate around here - but you can board."
Ya think other airlines - or even SNCF or Uber look at their clients like that? Wanna fly high rollers? Go all premium, leave us hoi polloi to WN, DL, UA etc. Like MGM Grand Air did. Oh, it failed, didn't it? And their largest piece of revenue was flying prisoners.
/Rant
Later: I'll give credit where due, in terms of appointing good people here and there and getting the IT changeover done well, etc. but operations and service - not so much.
So, they changed them after they saw how Delta did it. If he wished to, he could have changed the system to be completely EQ Dollar based (but that would require originality from a "oh, let's do what the other guy's doing" small airline CEO who found himself running the largest in the Americas).
IMO he has repeated his animus for frequent flyers who are apparently flying for reasons he doesn't consider legitimate, for flyers expecting their status perquisites to be fulfilled and us - FlyerTalkers - as a group. Frankly, I'm tired of the incessant whingeing. Heck, man, you're the one at the stick; if you don't like the route, change it. SMH.
"Good day, ...., what's your reason for flying today!"
1) "I'm going to Disneyland!"
"Well, we certainly wish you'd decided to go yesterday instead of two months ago, that you traveled more often and in a higher class of service, but we'll make sure you get no more than you paid for."
2) "To service a client, as I do every week."
"Oh, yes, and thank you for flying with us. Your upgrade has come through; here's your new boarding pass."
3) The price was great, I've always wanted to visit Lisbon and it'll maintain my EP another year."
"Hmh! Well, your money is okay, I guess, but we don't really consider you a legitimate traveler and you're second rate around here - but you can board."
Ya think other airlines - or even SNCF or Uber look at their clients like that? Wanna fly high rollers? Go all premium, leave us hoi polloi to WN, DL, UA etc. Like MGM Grand Air did. Oh, it failed, didn't it? And their largest piece of revenue was flying prisoners.
/Rant
Later: I'll give credit where due, in terms of appointing good people here and there and getting the IT changeover done well, etc. but operations and service - not so much.
Last edited by JDiver; Oct 27, 2017 at 6:17 pm
Oct 27, 2017, 5:45 pm
#17
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Mr. Parker considers himself a businessman, but he's picky about who gives him money? It's not like the MR folks were gaming a system; they were held to the same terms and conditions everyone else was tied to.
So, they changed them after they saw how Delta did it. If he wished to, he could have changed the system to be completely EQ Dollar based (but that would require originality from a "oh, let's do what the other guy's doing" small airline CEO who found himself running the largest in the Americas).
IMO he has repeated his animus for frequent flyers who are apparently flying for reasons he doesn't consider legitimate, for flyers expecting their status perquisites to be fulfilled and us - FlyerTalkers - as a group. Frankly, I'm tired of the incessant whingeing. Heck, man, you're the one at the stick; if you don't like the route, change it. SMH.
"Good day, ...., what's your reason for flying today!"
1) "I'm going to Disneyland!"
"Well, we certainly wish you'd decided to go yesterday instead of two months ago, that you traveled more often and in a higher class of service, but we'll make sure you get no more than you paid for."
2) "To service a client, as I do every week."
"Oh, yes, and thank you for flying with us. Your upgrade has come through; here's your new boarding pass."
3) The price was great, I've always wanted to visit Lisbon and it'll maintain my EP another year."
"Hmh! Well, your money is okay, I guess, but we don't really consider you a legitimate traveler and you're second rate around here - but you can board."
Ya think other airlines - or even SNCF or Uber look at their clients like that? Wanna fly high rollers? Go all premium, leave us hoi polloi to WN, DL, UA etc. Like MGM Grand Air did. Oh, it failed, didn't it? And their largest piece of revenue was flying prisoners.
/Rant
So, they changed them after they saw how Delta did it. If he wished to, he could have changed the system to be completely EQ Dollar based (but that would require originality from a "oh, let's do what the other guy's doing" small airline CEO who found himself running the largest in the Americas).
IMO he has repeated his animus for frequent flyers who are apparently flying for reasons he doesn't consider legitimate, for flyers expecting their status perquisites to be fulfilled and us - FlyerTalkers - as a group. Frankly, I'm tired of the incessant whingeing. Heck, man, you're the one at the stick; if you don't like the route, change it. SMH.
"Good day, ...., what's your reason for flying today!"
1) "I'm going to Disneyland!"
"Well, we certainly wish you'd decided to go yesterday instead of two months ago, that you traveled more often and in a higher class of service, but we'll make sure you get no more than you paid for."
2) "To service a client, as I do every week."
"Oh, yes, and thank you for flying with us. Your upgrade has come through; here's your new boarding pass."
3) The price was great, I've always wanted to visit Lisbon and it'll maintain my EP another year."
"Hmh! Well, your money is okay, I guess, but we don't really consider you a legitimate traveler and you're second rate around here - but you can board."
Ya think other airlines - or even SNCF or Uber look at their clients like that? Wanna fly high rollers? Go all premium, leave us hoi polloi to WN, DL, UA etc. Like MGM Grand Air did. Oh, it failed, didn't it? And their largest piece of revenue was flying prisoners.
/Rant
and thanks!
Oct 27, 2017, 5:48 pm
#18
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I you didn't read some of the comments posted under the Gary Leff column I linked in my OP, you might enjoy this one. (and bold, because....)
civet five says:
October 27, 2017 at 4:28 pm
1) Good thing those big bad mileage runners can’t drive AA out of business anymore. Now we can be more confident in Doug Parker’s earlier prediction that AA will never lose money again. Because the mileage runners.
2) “…Who knows where and back”. Places in your own route network Doug Parker. Don’t disparage the cities you serve, it makes you look like a fool.
3) No mention at all that 2/3 of all AA miles are earned for non-flying related activity?
civet five says:
October 27, 2017 at 4:28 pm
1) Good thing those big bad mileage runners can’t drive AA out of business anymore. Now we can be more confident in Doug Parker’s earlier prediction that AA will never lose money again. Because the mileage runners.
2) “…Who knows where and back”. Places in your own route network Doug Parker. Don’t disparage the cities you serve, it makes you look like a fool.
3) No mention at all that 2/3 of all AA miles are earned for non-flying related activity?
Oct 27, 2017, 6:12 pm
#19
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If you are offering 10 tickets for sale from city X to city Y at price Z. The price isn't random, its what RM decided they could sell it for.
8 people buy them for traditional travel reasons.
Would you rather the other two go empty or have someone purchase them for a MR. Sounds like there is a preference that they go empty ...
8 people buy them for traditional travel reasons.
Would you rather the other two go empty or have someone purchase them for a MR. Sounds like there is a preference that they go empty ...
Oct 27, 2017, 6:16 pm
#20
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That contention isn't supported in AA's statements regarding sold miles in its annual reports. Sold miles are a big fraction but not 2/3, and miles sold to airline partners are surely flying-related.
Last edited by JDiver; Oct 27, 2017 at 11:08 pm Reason: Add quotation context and clarify who said what
Oct 27, 2017, 6:18 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum (3 Million Miler), IHG Spire Royal Amdassador
Posts: 280
I've done a few MRs over the years but my motivation was not usually related to earning miles. It was related to earning status.
But I also *love* to fly. I'm probably in the lowest percentile of the traveling public that way, but I enjoy the airport experience. The in-flight experience (planes are awesome!). And the general buzz of travel.
And I almost always was doing a MR to somewhere I'd never been or someplace exotic (to me).
I can see how Doug doesn't value that business, but without MRs and the people interested in them he'd have far fewer online fans than he does. Think of the great trip report coverage he gets from all the blogs that show off his carrier's premium products. Air travel, despite being a near commodity, still has room for enthusiasm, style, prestige and romance. It's not the cable company, after all, unless the companies providing that service treat it as such.
But I also *love* to fly. I'm probably in the lowest percentile of the traveling public that way, but I enjoy the airport experience. The in-flight experience (planes are awesome!). And the general buzz of travel.
And I almost always was doing a MR to somewhere I'd never been or someplace exotic (to me).
I can see how Doug doesn't value that business, but without MRs and the people interested in them he'd have far fewer online fans than he does. Think of the great trip report coverage he gets from all the blogs that show off his carrier's premium products. Air travel, despite being a near commodity, still has room for enthusiasm, style, prestige and romance. It's not the cable company, after all, unless the companies providing that service treat it as such.
Oct 27, 2017, 6:29 pm
#22
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
This guy is SERIOUSLY unlikeable. Every single time he opens his big mouth, he just sounds like a bigger and bigger <redacted>. AA is ridiculously profitable and still he complains. They enjoy quasi-cartel level profits and market position, but that's not enough for Dougie.
Just wait. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US3 get broken up at some point in the future. In the mean time, I wish he would just shut up and enjoy the profits.
Just wait. I wouldn't be surprised to see the US3 get broken up at some point in the future. In the mean time, I wish he would just shut up and enjoy the profits.
Last edited by JDiver; Oct 28, 2017 at 6:56 am Reason: Rule 16 - https://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#offensive
Oct 27, 2017, 6:37 pm
#23
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If you are offering 10 tickets for sale from city X to city Y at price Z. The price isn't random, its what RM decided they could sell it for.
8 people buy them for traditional travel reasons.
Would you rather the other two go empty or have someone purchase them for a MR. Sounds like there is a preference that they go empty ...
8 people buy them for traditional travel reasons.
Would you rather the other two go empty or have someone purchase them for a MR. Sounds like there is a preference that they go empty ...
Oct 27, 2017, 6:37 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Doug Parker QUOTE:
“All of our customers are valuable, but those who pay us the most are the most valuable,” he said. “That’s the behavior you want to reward. You had this really perverse thing going on where we had people wanting miles so badly that they would do these mileage runs — looking for the cheapest fare they could find to go to who-knows-where and back.
“And that didn’t seem right to us. The dollar-based plan makes much more sense. We’re in the right place now.”
Oct 27, 2017, 6:55 pm
#25
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It’s fine that the rewards side of AAdvantage rewards a linear miles for dollars rate. The biggest misstatement here is that no one really MRs for Redeemable Miles! We all MR for Elite Qualifying Miles, EQDs in some cases, etc so we can maintain Elite Status. If all I cared for were RDM to get free flights from, I surely wouldn’t mileage run for those miles, I’d just save my money and buy the flights I want and instead of spending money to chase RDMs.
Yes, I mileage run too, I MR so I can get to 150K EQMs for those extra SWUs, I’ve done MRs when I was just short on EQMs for status, sometimes will do a MR just to run up some more EQDs, etc. I think if you end up aiming for 200K EQMs, you’d probably end up spending 12K in EQDs anyways.
As for the RDMs I earn, I could care less. I end up spending those on family. I fly AA and work hard to maintain my status because I want to keep having a decent experience in the 130K or so of Miles I legitimately fly. If it means I need to run another 20K of EQMs, then that’s worth it if the additional rewards outweigh the effort to get it. If AA gave zero elite perks and just rewarded me miles for dollar, then you can bet that I will no longer be loyal and will take my business to the lowest bidder each and every time. What Elite status does is it keeps me loyal and keeps me coming back to AA for additional business. Each time I fly, I have a choice, and I choose AA because my elite status attracts me to it.
Now if I’m wealthy enough to buy premium fares each time, then I’m pretty much a free agent as most premium cabins aren’t that different from each other. If I fly United from time to time, I would only fly if I found an attractive F/J fare as I don’t want to fly Y on united and be stuck in the back. Perks is what buys incremental business, not sandwich shop punch card rewards.
Yes, I mileage run too, I MR so I can get to 150K EQMs for those extra SWUs, I’ve done MRs when I was just short on EQMs for status, sometimes will do a MR just to run up some more EQDs, etc. I think if you end up aiming for 200K EQMs, you’d probably end up spending 12K in EQDs anyways.
As for the RDMs I earn, I could care less. I end up spending those on family. I fly AA and work hard to maintain my status because I want to keep having a decent experience in the 130K or so of Miles I legitimately fly. If it means I need to run another 20K of EQMs, then that’s worth it if the additional rewards outweigh the effort to get it. If AA gave zero elite perks and just rewarded me miles for dollar, then you can bet that I will no longer be loyal and will take my business to the lowest bidder each and every time. What Elite status does is it keeps me loyal and keeps me coming back to AA for additional business. Each time I fly, I have a choice, and I choose AA because my elite status attracts me to it.
Now if I’m wealthy enough to buy premium fares each time, then I’m pretty much a free agent as most premium cabins aren’t that different from each other. If I fly United from time to time, I would only fly if I found an attractive F/J fare as I don’t want to fly Y on united and be stuck in the back. Perks is what buys incremental business, not sandwich shop punch card rewards.
Last edited by matrixwalker2012; Oct 27, 2017 at 7:03 pm
Oct 27, 2017, 7:06 pm
#27
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The thing that he doesn't understand - is that some people are doing mileage runs buying business class tickets. Many are buying partner J tickets as well.
AA sets the cost of the fares, and people are flying them. Why isn't that a good customer. A DCA-LAX in J is $830 RT many times. That is a mileage run - considering you get 2x EQM.
A lot of people here are some of his best customers - there are many Flyertalker's that are CK.
AA sets the cost of the fares, and people are flying them. Why isn't that a good customer. A DCA-LAX in J is $830 RT many times. That is a mileage run - considering you get 2x EQM.
A lot of people here are some of his best customers - there are many Flyertalker's that are CK.
Oct 27, 2017, 7:19 pm
#29
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Doug and his team set and have set the "rules" for earning "status". Apparently some customers like "status" benefits because at least part of the time they have to fly. And "status" makes that less difficult/un-enjoyable.
Doug - don't complain about the fact that people actually read the "rules" that you have created. Or are we going to see the situation where you have to fly to learn about the "benefits" you might earn....... I think the US Congress tried something similar - with mixed results.
Just wandering
Fred
Doug - don't complain about the fact that people actually read the "rules" that you have created. Or are we going to see the situation where you have to fly to learn about the "benefits" you might earn....... I think the US Congress tried something similar - with mixed results.
Just wandering
Fred
Oct 27, 2017, 7:27 pm
#30
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The thing about a revenue-based program is, it puts the customer in mind of every dollar he/she is spending, and the spend = reward relationship. If I'm doing discretionary extra spend in the thousands to get a few free drinks and be in Group 3 instead of Group 6, I am an idiot, and I will figure that out quickly. The absurdity is pretty stark.
The next economic depression will be comeuppance enough for guys like Parker.
The next economic depression will be comeuppance enough for guys like Parker.
