ashill

Sure, PHL expansion isn't unlimited, but I think it's very fair to say that AA has a lot more ability to grow TATL capacity and connecting feed at PHL than at JFK. So AA's JFK strategy is largely limited to markets that can support themselves with O&D on the JFK end and O&D plus any partner connections on the other end.

lowfareair

Agreed - I thought there weren't places to easily board an A330/763 off jetway without going a mile away from terminal A, but I bet that with some minor modifications, PHL could install 4 hard stands in front of the cargo building just West of A-West and use people movers in the summer, if push came to shove.

DA201

Pasqualle7

So many things wrong with this. UA gave up on JFK when they moved opps to EWR. They sold all of their slots and being JFK is congested they should not even be part of the move. Southwest is another one there is just no room for them. You expand T8 for all OW, rebuild 1 and keep the same tenets, you move B6 and Alaska to T7. Delta and ST can make due with 2 and 4 for now but they should combine them for a ST/Delta terminal. It may not be a huge shakeup but that frees up T5. All of this is under the assumption that BA wants to sell T7. Remember they own T7 and the NYPA cant make them move or sell. Personally I would love to see them combine 7/8 and create a massive OW hub where they can destress PHL a little. Looks like AA wont be going in that direction.

eponymous_coward

AS is already in T7. They're building a lounge there, too.

There's no way BA is going to want to dump $65 million into refurbishing T7 facilities and then have the Port Authority go "syke! We want you to give up that space 5 minutes after you built it because AA wants a superterminal."

All you JFK AA fans can rest assured that T7 isn't going anywhere for at least a few years (until BA has recouped their facilities investment).

ashill

Everything else you say makes sense, but using JFK to destress PHL?!

If AA can profitably strengthen their O&D traffic at JFK by adding/maintaining flights which rely partly on connections, great; that's a legitimate argument (and one that has been hashed out ad nauseum in this thread). But if the main goal is making connections better, JFK is just about the worst airport in the world to choose. Connecting traffic doesn't intrinsically care which hub they use, and AA can expand at PHL considerably more easily than they can at JFK (see the previous few posts). Of course, US/AA at PHL has had considerably better TATL connections than AA at JFK for many years, so any expansion there has a big head start over PHL.

george 3

These are good thoughts however, I think jetBlue is talking about a bigger need too. Maybe T7 gets demolished and T5 is expanded in that direction (and absorbs the other four you noted). A T1-3 mega-terminal would be good for the new international arrivals (not covered by T8 or T4.

diver858

PHL is HORRIBLE for incoming international connections - particularly with checked bags. Must allow AT LEAST 3 hours.
1. From my experience, it typically takes 45 mins - 1 hour for bags to show up on the carousel - even for Priority Bags - eliminating much of the benefits of Global Entry
2. Long walk, then long lines for domestic security, PreCheck is not always available in the evening
3. Airspace can become quite congested, not unusual to spend 15 - 45 minutes waiting for a landing slot - particularly when there is weather
If AA is seeking an alternative to JFK (and DFW, MIA) for international connections, particularly to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America, my preference would be CLT over PHL.

ashill

OK, but do you have any reason to believe that CLT wouldn't have these issues (especially 1 and 2) if it had a bank of international arrivals anything like the size of the PHL bank? As for PreCheck not being available in the evening, it seems that working with TSA to make PreCheck available in the evening at PHL would be rather easier than moving the TATL hub to PHL.

And crowded airspace is a consequence of demand, which is desirable for an airline.

PHL is not an alternative to DFW and MIA for Caribbean and Latin America connections; AA is only talking about using PHL as a trans-Atlantic hub.

bridge29

Gotta say, PHL has a shorter walk than I've been through arriving internationally at other airports, thinking specifically ORD and MIA. I've also never waited more than an hour for my bags for international.

Isn't Pre-Check always at A-West and C now?

DMPHL

I'd be interested to know where you think more than one widebody—let alone 15-16—is going park at CLT without blocking adjacent gates.

DA201

Kirby is at the helm now and has said (many times) that it was a mistake for UA to leave JFK. I doubt they would revert back to the schedule they previously had, but a handful of ORD/IAH/DEN flights are definitely not unrealistic should the terminal be open and available.

If you expand/rebuild, there are more gates available. Additionally, JFK's peak congestion is during international arrival/departure times. Since WN would operate domestic flights, most of there flights would be during off-peak times.

UA is spending millions of dollars refurbishing 763s it plans on retiring within 10 years. DL has spent boatloads of money at LGA over the past decade and the entire airport is now being rebuilt. Airlines sometimes spend millions of dollars for projects that don't last decades.

If the Port Authority presented this theoretical plan tomorrow, they would then spend a year or two filing permits and completing studies, then spend another few years expanding T8 before BA could actually move in. Realistically, the Port Authority would likely not do anything until LGA is wrapping up in 2021, because having major construction at 2/3 airports would be a nightmare. The work would likely be done in stages, not all at once like LGA, because of JFK's enormous size, and T1/the road network would likely be prioritized due to them being higher priorities, so that's another couple years. Then, T8 needs to be expanded so BA can move, which is another few years. BA wouldn't likely move for about 8-10 years.

Pasqualle7

Yes ment to state AS stays in T7. I know T7 isnt going anywhere, that was an opinion on my behalf. Even a secure connector between 7 and 8 would help OW out a lot. Also didnt delta just invest hundreds of million into LGA just to get rebuilt. Some long term projects dont have long term viability.

eponymous_coward

dylanks