Heavies / widebody at PHX?
Jan 6, 2019, 2:43 am
#31
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
PHX-LHR arrives at 09.25 and LHR-PHX departs at 09.30 so it can’t be turning in LHR. So either it’s doing a W with another TATL route and turning in PHX, or doing a tag from PHX, or both.
Jan 10, 2019, 3:26 pm
#32
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Lets clarify this more, the LHR-PHX arrives at 1230pm and the PHX-LHR leaves at 3PM so the 772 is only doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights
Jan 10, 2019, 3:53 pm
#33
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
(Note: it's also not impossible with those timings that it could do an onward westbound leg and turn elsewhere, e.g. HNL, but I don't think that's happening.)
Jan 10, 2019, 4:30 pm
#34
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That would be the assumption for the turn at PHX yes, but it may well be part of a W from another TATL hub, turning twice in LHR with PHX in the middle. Or are you saying you know that's not the case, i.e. there will be a single aircraft serving this single route? What about maintenance?
(Note: it's also not impossible with those timings that it could do an onward westbound leg and turn elsewhere, e.g. HNL, but I don't think that's happening.)
(Note: it's also not impossible with those timings that it could do an onward westbound leg and turn elsewhere, e.g. HNL, but I don't think that's happening.)
So I'm saying that the 772 will only be doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights and when it comes to maintenance AA would just fly a plane in from a maintenance base OR PHX maintenance base would handle it (which I doubt will happen.)
Jan 10, 2019, 5:09 pm
#35
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
How long do you think it takes a turn a 772 after doing a trip from LHR? I would assume at least an hour, currently PHX-HNL is operated by 757 and will go to the new A321neo, we could ONLY dream that it would be a 772.
So I'm saying that the 772 will only be doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights and when it comes to maintenance AA would just fly a plane in from a maintenance base OR PHX maintenance base would handle it (which I doubt will happen.)
So I'm saying that the 772 will only be doing the PHX-LHR-PHX flights and when it comes to maintenance AA would just fly a plane in from a maintenance base OR PHX maintenance base would handle it (which I doubt will happen.)
Jan 10, 2019, 7:23 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2016
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The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
Jan 10, 2019, 9:13 pm
#37
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The PHX-LHR route can not be operated with a dedicated airframe. The plane would be arriving PHX every 2nd/3rd day in need of having its next A/B Check completed. This requires an overnight (or similar length) stay at a maint base.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.
FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.
I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.
FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.
I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
Jan 11, 2019, 1:53 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
Jan 11, 2019, 1:06 pm
#39
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FWIW- There are A333s going between CLT and PHX. Morning out of CLT arrives late morning in PHX (as AA1678) while another A333 leaves PHX to CLT doing the opposite, leaves 9:35 AM, arrives CLT late afternoon (as AA1696). I haven't looked at the whole schedule to determine how long this has been going on or will continue but glad I'm on it in a week or so!
Jan 11, 2019, 8:04 pm
#40
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FWIW- There are A333s going between CLT and PHX. Morning out of CLT arrives late morning in PHX (as AA1678) while another A333 leaves PHX to CLT doing the opposite, leaves 9:35 AM, arrives CLT late afternoon (as AA1696). I haven't looked at the whole schedule to determine how long this has been going on or will continue but glad I'm on it in a week or so!
Jan 11, 2019, 8:07 pm
#41
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But wait... as I said above the aircraft *cannot* be turning in London. The departure time is 5 mins after arrival time. So either there are two aircraft devoted to just the PHX-LHR daily run and sitting at LHR for 23h55m, which seems ludicrous, or it’s doing a W with another AA TATL route. So which is it?
The flight will likely mirror the current RDU-LHR service which does JFK-LHR-RDU-LHR-JFK. The "turn" would likely be in Phoenix for the aircraft. For example for the upcoming flight would have the aircraft originate from a 777 base (LAX,DFW,JFK) fly the LHR then fly to PHX, from PHX back to LHR, then back to a 777 base. Together the route for the aircraft would look like: DFW-LHR-PHX-LHR-DFW.
The PHX-LHR route can not be operated with a dedicated airframe. The plane would be arriving PHX every 2nd/3rd day in need of having its next A/B Check completed. This requires an overnight (or similar length) stay at a maint base.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.
FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.
I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
The trip will most likely be flown the generic routing used for most of the TATL long hauls ... USA Maint Base --> Europe --> USA --> Europe --> USA Maint base.
There are obviously many variations, but that routing is very common.
FWIW ...
When I say "maint" here, I'm talking about scheduled maint. Obviously, line maint is done (or more likely recorded & set-up for "deferred maint") as a plane encounters issues wile "flying the line".
Narrow body (domestic/short haul intl) are typically released from maint on 3 day runs (typically, with one of the nights being on a red-eye), the end of that run being back at a maint base for the next A/B Check.
I see that since I started writing this post (during TV commercial breaks) , freeagent has replied, essentially saying the same.
Jan 11, 2019, 10:12 pm
#42
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.
Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".
My apologies to Ldnn1 who described typical TATL routings as a "W". In my days at AA Ops, we never used that term, so it went way over my head. In this reply, I realized that my long post above is saying the typical TATL routings are a "W".
To combine your "PHX-LHR-PHX" routing with Ldnn1's "W" and my generic routing gives us .... (ignore the dots below, they were needed to get the slashes and airport codes to align correctly)
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........LHR........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........PHX........PHX.......
Correcting the verbiage of your routing to "LHR-PHX-LHR" gets all of us in agreement ...
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........PHX........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........LHR........LHR.......
Last edited by steve64; Jan 11, 2019 at 10:23 pm Reason: FT formatting is not "what you see is what you get", so bad attempt at a graphic "W"
Jan 12, 2019, 1:19 pm
#43
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So, we're in agreement then.
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.
Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".
...
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.
Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".
...
Jan 12, 2019, 1:50 pm
#45
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 591
So, we're in agreement then.
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.
Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".
My apologies to Ldnn1 who described typical TATL routings as a "W". In my days at AA Ops, we never used that term, so it went way over my head. In this reply, I realized that my long post above is saying the typical TATL routings are a "W".
To combine your "PHX-LHR-PHX" routing with Ldnn1's "W" and my generic routing gives us .... (ignore the dots below, they were needed to get the slashes and airport codes to align correctly)
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........LHR........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........PHX........PHX.......
Correcting the verbiage of your routing to "LHR-PHX-LHR" gets all of us in agreement ...
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........PHX........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........LHR........LHR.......
Which means that 2 of your posts above need to be corrected to show the routing as LHR-PHX-LHR, not the PHX-LHR-PHX that you indicate.
Listing the routing as you have, has made some of us think you believe the plane that just flew PHX to LHR is going to turn at LHR back to PHX. Which, in the absence of any "tag" legs to/from PHX, means that in PHX the plane can only turn back to LHR and repeat. Thus my comment about "dedicated airframe".
My apologies to Ldnn1 who described typical TATL routings as a "W". In my days at AA Ops, we never used that term, so it went way over my head. In this reply, I realized that my long post above is saying the typical TATL routings are a "W".
To combine your "PHX-LHR-PHX" routing with Ldnn1's "W" and my generic routing gives us .... (ignore the dots below, they were needed to get the slashes and airport codes to align correctly)
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........LHR........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........PHX........PHX.......
Correcting the verbiage of your routing to "LHR-PHX-LHR" gets all of us in agreement ...
USA Maint Base....USA Maint Base
....\............................/....
.....\ ........PHX........../.....
......\....... /.....\ ......../......
.......\..... /........\..... /.......
........LHR........LHR.......