Apr 25, 2017, 6:09 am
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues
This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues. For further information, see:
FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum
China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)
and / or
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.
Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.
AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.
144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions
Aug 5, 2017, 3:55 pm
#616
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Compare that to the cost of a visa. Was it worth not getting a visa for your son?
Aug 5, 2017, 3:58 pm
#617
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Probably this is one of the myriad reasons why AA never gets any traction on its routes to China - the check in agents dont even know how to read TIMATIC when every other Asian and ME3 airlines know how to read it and figure out all the waivers and exceptions.
Besides, PEK will soon have 144 TWOV also.
I would definitely write to AA to complain on this.
Besides, PEK will soon have 144 TWOV also.
I would definitely write to AA to complain on this.
Aug 5, 2017, 6:01 pm
#619
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He was denied a visa due to too many stamps in his passport - figure that one out. We were then advised to get a second "clean" passport - a new passport with no stamps - which we did. He was to fly to Shanghai and stay less than the 144 hours. We purchased a second ticket (through AA, so they could have records of both flights under his name) so he could leave the country and come back for less than 144 hours on the back end. According to the law and the local Dallas passport and visa expedite company experts, this should have worked perfectly.
Aug 5, 2017, 6:21 pm
#620
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GAs are likely to stop reading once they have grounds to deny. The TWOA conditions are AFTER the rules that require a visa. Getting them to look further is a challenge. I was in ORD, I had a printout from the Chinese Consulate, they even called the AA travel czar in Dallas. They all decided a visa was required for a two day stay over. Dallas must have got confused and called back saying they would let me board IF I agreed to pay for the return ticket and any fines imposed if entry was denied. Talk about a pensive flight! Got to PVG and not even a second look.
ALWAYS plan extra time at the airport to get such issues resolved.
ALWAYS plan extra time at the airport to get such issues resolved.
Aug 5, 2017, 6:22 pm
#621
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AA Conditions of Carraige, a contract of adhesion that applies when one buys tickets. It's pretty much the same with other airlines.
I'd definitely complain to AA, by snail mail to the executive offices. This affects business people as well as leisure travelers. The supervisor should have used TIMATIC, which is what the AA agents normally use for these decisions. Inputting the data should have revealed China TWOV conditions.
You can see what TIMATIC is and what they'd have seen using the UA public use page here.
Future business is entirely speculative and not germane.
This is not intended to be competent legal advice. For such, consult an attorney.
I'd definitely complain to AA, by snail mail to the executive offices. This affects business people as well as leisure travelers. The supervisor should have used TIMATIC, which is what the AA agents normally use for these decisions. Inputting the data should have revealed China TWOV conditions.
You can see what TIMATIC is and what they'd have seen using the UA public use page here.
Future business is entirely speculative and not germane.
This is not intended to be competent legal advice. For such, consult an attorney.
Aug 5, 2017, 6:39 pm
#622
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Aug 5, 2017, 8:45 pm
#623
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GAs are likely to stop reading once they have grounds to deny. The TWOA conditions are AFTER the rules that require a visa. Getting them to look further is a challenge. I was in ORD, I had a printout from the Chinese Consulate, they even called the AA travel czar in Dallas. They all decided a visa was required for a two day stay over. Dallas must have got confused and called back saying they would let me board IF I agreed to pay for the return ticket and any fines imposed if entry was denied. Talk about a pensive flight! Got to PVG and not even a second look.
ALWAYS plan extra time at the airport to get such issues resolved.
ALWAYS plan extra time at the airport to get such issues resolved.
Neither UA nor DL has such ignorant agents and even more ignorant "travel tsar" given that it IS their job to understand these things.
Aug 5, 2017, 9:19 pm
#624
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Aug 5, 2017, 11:05 pm
#625
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Why can't this be a USDOT complaint? Expressly not consulting TIMATIC and only relying one's own "religious" belief that such an itin requires a visa? And especially that they have admitted guilt!
Aug 6, 2017, 6:51 am
#626
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HA ha ha ha....400%?!?!?? Oh this is a classic.
Last edited by AAExecPlatFlier; Aug 6, 2017 at 6:55 am Reason: 400? That might be a tough sell
Aug 6, 2017, 7:01 am
#627
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You're aware that 400% isn't just some arbitrary figure?
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...from-a-flight/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...from-a-flight/
Aug 6, 2017, 7:19 am
#628
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How much did the ticket cost?
Last edited by DoTheBartMan; Aug 6, 2017 at 7:37 am
Aug 6, 2017, 8:00 am
#629
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The long thread (3,392 posts at this writing) in the FT China forum reveals plenty of problems interpreting China's TWOV on the part of DL and UA check-in agents.
Aug 6, 2017, 10:07 am
#630
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You know what penalty will make airlines learn? Follow the Koreans. Asiana flew ICN-SPN one night, the 4-hour flight had some critical equipment outage about an hour out, but the pilots decided, instead of an easy divert to (and rescue flight send to) Japan, to continue to Saipan, where the plane was promptly deemed unable to return, stranding 200 mostly Korean vacationers returning home. The Korean government's penalty was SUSPENSION for a number of days. Saipan's government had to plea for diluted punishment (e.g. -1 flight/week instead of 7 straight days no flights) because that will impact their tourist economy.
So to apply this principle, it'd be my "dream" to see the Chinese or US government levying a one-flight suspension for every blatantly improper denial of boarding due to visa issues.