Apr 25, 2017, 6:09 am
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues
This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues. For further information, see:
FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum
China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)
and / or
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.
Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.
AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.
144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions
Aug 24, 2017, 2:06 pm
#646
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: LAS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 35
Currently on my way to PVG.
My wife does not have a valid visa for China. We booked BOS-PVG with AA and have a flight on same day from PVG-HKG. No issues in Boston, in Chicago, I spoke to the GA and told her that we will be transiting only in China. Immediately she tells me that this will not work, that we need to have it all on one itinerary. I called BS, I have traveled many times without a visa to transit and explained that to her. Her response was that she was "98%" sure that we will be denied boarding, unless something changed in 24 hours that she didn't know about. Supervisor comes by, looks at our onward tickets goes "they are good and can travel". It would be nice if they had GA's who knew the damn rules.
Thinking of going to the consulate for get my wife a visa so we don't have to deal with this BS.
My wife does not have a valid visa for China. We booked BOS-PVG with AA and have a flight on same day from PVG-HKG. No issues in Boston, in Chicago, I spoke to the GA and told her that we will be transiting only in China. Immediately she tells me that this will not work, that we need to have it all on one itinerary. I called BS, I have traveled many times without a visa to transit and explained that to her. Her response was that she was "98%" sure that we will be denied boarding, unless something changed in 24 hours that she didn't know about. Supervisor comes by, looks at our onward tickets goes "they are good and can travel". It would be nice if they had GA's who knew the damn rules.
Thinking of going to the consulate for get my wife a visa so we don't have to deal with this BS.
Aug 24, 2017, 3:26 pm
#647
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 3,437
I tried that once at Chinese Consulate at Los Angeles. My coworker needed Chinese visa where I did not need one. My coworker never applied for visa for any country so I went along with my coworker to help him out. Thought why not get one for myself to be on safe side, but no dice, showing my ticket itinerary and told I do not need visa.
Aug 24, 2017, 3:34 pm
#648
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
^ I love how GA's and check-in agents all have their own version of the rules... Flew ORD-PEK as well yesterday, and during check-in, all I said was I have an onward flight PEK-SGN the following day, and was issued my boarding pass without any question. Didn't even have to show proof of onward travel, as I am flying Air China (ew) on a separate itin.
Aug 24, 2017, 3:43 pm
#649
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,405
No, Chinese Consulate will not issue you a visa when you do not need one. Chinese Consulate will issue visa only when presented with a document (i.e. airline ticket itinerary, invitation letter from Chinese corporation or academia, etc.) showing a need for Chinese visa.
Aug 27, 2017, 11:43 am
#651
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,454
You should have a hotel booking (for overnight stays) - or, if staying at a private place, the phone number of the host
Aug 27, 2017, 12:01 pm
#652
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: (SJC)
Posts: 2,198
7.Q: When does the 144 hours of visa-exemption stay start?
A: After confirming his / her qualification for 144-hour visa-exemption transit, the immigration inspection station will issue the foreign passenger a temporary entry permit. Then from 00:00 of the next day upon his / her arrival in China, he / she can stay in the administrative precincts of Shanghai Municipality, Jiangsu Province and Zhejiang Province without a Chinese visa for 144 hours.
A: After confirming his / her qualification for 144-hour visa-exemption transit, the immigration inspection station will issue the foreign passenger a temporary entry permit. Then from 00:00 of the next day upon his / her arrival in China, he / she can stay in the administrative precincts of Shanghai Municipality, Jiangsu Province and Zhejiang Province without a Chinese visa for 144 hours.
We could even outbound via NRT/Other, but I don't feel this is necessary.
Aug 27, 2017, 12:52 pm
#653
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
In order to qualify for the 72 or 144-hour TWOV, the traveler's inbound and outbound flights must directly arrive at and depart from one of the acceptable ports of entry from or to a third country (including one of the two SARs). Both flights must have no stopovers of any kind within Mainland China prior to arrival or after departure at the port of entry, and the outbound flight's first stop or destination must be in a different country than the inbound flight's. Travels between U.S. territories and the contiguous U.S. are also ineligible for 72 or 144-hour TWOV, unless one of their flights has a stopover in a third country or a SAR.[1]
*from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_p..._144-hour_stay
Aug 27, 2017, 1:04 pm
#654
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boulder
Programs: AA Plat, CX Silver
Posts: 2,361
As I understand it, you are not supposed to just go and return, as that makes China your destination. TWOV rules are:
In order to qualify for the 72 or 144-hour TWOV, the traveler's inbound and outbound flights must directly arrive at and depart from one of the acceptable ports of entry from or to a third country (including one of the two SARs). Both flights must have no stopovers of any kind within Mainland China prior to arrival or after departure at the port of entry, and the outbound flight's first stop or destination must be in a different country than the inbound flight's. Travels between U.S. territories and the contiguous U.S. are also ineligible for 72 or 144-hour TWOV, unless one of their flights has a stopover in a third country or a SAR.[1]
*from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_p..._144-hour_stay
So if they choose to declare SJC and SFO to be the same, this might not pass. You will need to pick another location to "transit" via.
In order to qualify for the 72 or 144-hour TWOV, the traveler's inbound and outbound flights must directly arrive at and depart from one of the acceptable ports of entry from or to a third country (including one of the two SARs). Both flights must have no stopovers of any kind within Mainland China prior to arrival or after departure at the port of entry, and the outbound flight's first stop or destination must be in a different country than the inbound flight's. Travels between U.S. territories and the contiguous U.S. are also ineligible for 72 or 144-hour TWOV, unless one of their flights has a stopover in a third country or a SAR.[1]
*from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_p..._144-hour_stay
AMRivlin's only risk here is a rogue GA, not Chinese immigration. OTOH, that's also clearly not an AA itinerary, so probably better to take that question to the TWOV thread in the China forum.
Aug 27, 2017, 8:51 pm
#655
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 2,203
Aug 27, 2017, 9:15 pm
#656
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum
Posts: 1,894
It will work as far as China is concerned. For TWOV purposes, they look at the itinerary as being YVR-PVG-SFO (Canada-China-USA). They care only about the actual plane that brings you to China and the one that takes you out of China. Where you were before and where you'll be after don't matter. The Wiki in the very long relevant thread in the FT China forum goes into great detail about this.
The problem identified in this not-as-long thread are gate agents and check-in agents outside China who don't understand how this works. Admittedly, it does sound odd, but China is perfectly willing to allow this.
The problem identified in this not-as-long thread are gate agents and check-in agents outside China who don't understand how this works. Admittedly, it does sound odd, but China is perfectly willing to allow this.
Aug 27, 2017, 9:39 pm
#657
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,454
Tons of travellers do it every day. I myself have flown stuff like Austria-China-Switzerland with TWOV. Never a single problem. This is perfectly fine according to the rules and Chinese immigration just follow the rules. Never a problem there!
Aug 27, 2017, 9:45 pm
#658
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP, SPG / Marriott GLD, HHonors GLD
Posts: 520
totally agree - I usually just book the return via Tokyo (few hour layover) to take advantage of this. Definitely works, they only care about arriving and departing countries not being the same.
Sep 21, 2017, 7:24 pm
#659
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 30
would LHR-HKG-PEK-HKG work for TWOV?
I'm planning a trip from LHR to HKG and am thinking of starting in PEK for a few days. The best fares seem to be on CX at the moment.
But for purposes of the TWOV program, even though I am starting at LHR and only transiting via HKG to get to PEK, because I will be going back to PEK afterwards does this mean I am no longer eligible for TWOV?
And if I put the PEK leg at the end, since there are no CX flights from PEK to LHR, it will have to transit via HKG anyways, so again would this mean I just can't fly CX to take advantage of TWOV for a few days in China?
But for purposes of the TWOV program, even though I am starting at LHR and only transiting via HKG to get to PEK, because I will be going back to PEK afterwards does this mean I am no longer eligible for TWOV?
And if I put the PEK leg at the end, since there are no CX flights from PEK to LHR, it will have to transit via HKG anyways, so again would this mean I just can't fly CX to take advantage of TWOV for a few days in China?
Sep 21, 2017, 7:58 pm
#660
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA-G. WR-P, HH-G, IHG-S, ALL. TT-GE.
Posts: 2,910
But for purposes of the TWOV program, even though I am starting at LHR and only transiting via HKG to get to PEK, because I will be going back to PEK afterwards does this mean I am no longer eligible for TWOV? And if I put the PEK leg at the end, since there are no CX flights from PEK to LHR, it will have to transit via HKG anyways, so again would this mean I just can't fly CX to take advantage of TWOV for a few days in China?
Last edited by HkCaGu; Sep 22, 2017 at 9:31 am Reason: Mistaken thread