Apr 25, 2017, 6:09 am
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues
This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues. For further information, see:
FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum
China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)
and / or
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread
The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.
Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.
AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.
144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions
Aug 6, 2017, 11:15 am
#631
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: BA Silver; Hilton Gold; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,811
He was denied a visa due to too many stamps in his passport - figure that one out. We were then advised to get a second "clean" passport - a new passport with no stamps - which we did. He was to fly to Shanghai and stay less than the 144 hours. We purchased a second ticket (through AA, so they could have records of both flights under his name) so he could leave the country and come back for less than 144 hours on the back end. According to the law and the local Dallas passport and visa expedite company experts, this should have worked perfectly.
Aug 6, 2017, 12:25 pm
#632
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
The consulate's response to our expedite company was that he had too many stamps to Haiti - 4 trips in 4 years as a college student with teammates to do construction. He had also stamps from Canada, France, Belgium, Italy and Spain...maybe others. Our speculation is that they might have thought he was a missionary and didn't want to issue a 10-year visa to such a person. But, he had plenty of room... just red flags (pun intended!) for the Chinese gov't
Aug 6, 2017, 12:37 pm
#633
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
Unless you MUST fly AA to China, I dont see why one would ever choose AA given their Travel Tzar still does not know jack after several years AA started its China routes, and after the first 72 hours and now 144 hours TWOA are in effect - of course all the exceptions are listed under the very first one said Visa Required - that is why those are EXCEPTIONS under certain conditions...
Neither UA nor DL has such ignorant agents and even more ignorant "travel tsar" given that it IS their job to understand these things.
Neither UA nor DL has such ignorant agents and even more ignorant "travel tsar" given that it IS their job to understand these things.
Aug 6, 2017, 12:44 pm
#634
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
The consulate's response to our expedite company was that he had too many stamps to Haiti - 4 trips in 4 years as a college student with teammates to do construction. He had also stamps from Canada, France, Belgium, Italy and Spain...maybe others. Our speculation is that they might have thought he was a missionary and didn't want to issue a 10-year visa to such a person. But, he had plenty of room... just red flags (pun intended!) for the Chinese gov't
BTW, did the passport have two completely clean pages facing each other? This is as extreme as In can recall for any visa requirement, although for China one clean page might be enough.
BTW, I've gotten Chinese visas and also done TWOV with many more stamps in my passport, but I don't visit Haiti or similar suspicious places. Maybe you should have tried a different visa agency and ideally a different consulate if there's a way that the rules would allow it.
Aug 6, 2017, 12:54 pm
#635
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Yes, DL does have such ignorant agents, including very senior "redcoat" supervisors. Moreover, DL has no travel czar so there's no one at HQ to which appeals can be made. In addition, these DL airport authorities have told me that "DL had its own version of TIMATIC" and they refuse to even look at a TIMATIC printout from the like on their own alliance (SkyTeam) website.
Aug 6, 2017, 1:36 pm
#636
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
Then I'd worry that the person could also be denied upon arrival in China for the same reason. It's sounds like the problem/speculation wasn't the number of stamps but more the regular travel to Haiti which is unlikely to be a tourist or business destination.
BTW, did the passport have two completely clean pages facing each other? This is as extreme as In can recall for any visa requirement, although for China one clean page might be enough.
BTW, I've gotten Chinese visas and also done TWOV with many more stamps in my passport, but I don't visit Haiti or similar suspicious places. Maybe you should have tried a different visa agency and ideally a different consulate if there's a way that the rules would allow it.
BTW, did the passport have two completely clean pages facing each other? This is as extreme as In can recall for any visa requirement, although for China one clean page might be enough.
BTW, I've gotten Chinese visas and also done TWOV with many more stamps in my passport, but I don't visit Haiti or similar suspicious places. Maybe you should have tried a different visa agency and ideally a different consulate if there's a way that the rules would allow it.
Aug 6, 2017, 1:43 pm
#637
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
You're aware that 400% isn't just some arbitrary figure?
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...from-a-flight/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...from-a-flight/
I didn't think TWOV was allowed for business travel purposes
Last edited by CDKing; Aug 6, 2017 at 1:50 pm
Aug 6, 2017, 7:00 pm
#639
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
400% capped at $1,350 is the IDB compensation formula. But, this does not qualify for IDB because the reason for denial is not oversale, but a mistaken interpretation of China's rules.
DOT could have expanded its IDB rule to cover any improper denial of boarding, but it has not.
DOT could have expanded its IDB rule to cover any improper denial of boarding, but it has not.
Aug 6, 2017, 7:10 pm
#640
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280567-post591.html
(I know of other cases as well, same formula applied.)
Aug 7, 2017, 8:01 am
#641
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
It's how AA legal handles it in these cases:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280567-post591.html
(I know of other cases as well, same formula applied.)
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28280567-post591.html
(I know of other cases as well, same formula applied.)
Aug 7, 2017, 8:11 am
#642
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott Titanium; Globalist
Posts: 376
The consulate's response to our expedite company was that he had too many stamps to Haiti - 4 trips in 4 years as a college student with teammates to do construction. He had also stamps from Canada, France, Belgium, Italy and Spain...maybe others. Our speculation is that they might have thought he was a missionary and didn't want to issue a 10-year visa to such a person. But, he had plenty of room... just red flags (pun intended!) for the Chinese gov't
Aug 10, 2017, 7:47 am
#643
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Aug 14, 2017, 11:49 am
#644
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
I have been traveling to Haiti five to six times a year and when I applied for a Chinese visa last year had no problems with getting the 10 year visa. It might have helped that I had just gotten a new passport and only had several pages with stamps but i believe they were all Haiti immigration stamps except a couple to Asia for HKG and Tokyo.
Aug 14, 2017, 11:52 am
#645
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
$300 AA voucher
Personal phone call which lasted 20 minutes. Rep assured me all details would be reviewed and personnel would be addressed.
Rep also said "You did everything right. We failed to provide the level of service you should expect." FINALLY! Too little, too late, but FINALLY!