144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions

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AA Ground Staff May Deny Boarding for China Transit Without Visa Issues

This thread is ONLY for discussion of American Airlines' ground staff dealing with Chinese TWOV issues.
For further information, see:

FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > China Forum

China Visa / Visas Master Thread (all you need to know)

and / or

China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread

The issue: though Chinese immigration authorities seem disposed to allow transit without visa for passengers going on to flights with connections in non-China, non-origin destinations, e.g. LAX-PVG <permitted TWOV> PVG-NRT-LAX, AA ground staff have denied boarding to passengers for the XXX-China leg.

Even if such a passenger were to secure alternate arrangements or reimbursement, there is still sure to be considerable inconvenience. Until AA informs ground staff such travel complies with China TWOV rules, purchasing such an itinerary currently entails some degree of risk, as evidenced in the following thread.

AA generally uses IATA Timatic to verify boarding eligibility. Link to Timatic Web provided courtesy of United Airlines; this form provides information on entry requirements, not departure policies as might be administered by any airline.



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Old Apr 24, 17, 8:32 am
  #496  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
If asking this at this stage in the thread, then I suggest reading the thread and understanding what others points of view may be.

If it was "ridiculously black and white" , I suspect that there would be no discussion on it ( as per just about any other country )
. I had hoped we were past this point in this thread.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 9:20 am
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
It would make much more sense for AA to fix the problem on its end because China's TWOV policy --as presented in TIMATIC-- is not difficult for people with average intelligence to comprehend.
We are a friendly and welcoming forum

You'll note that many in this forum disagree that the description in Timatic comports with your explanation of how TWOV works in a practical sense. No need to insult those who disagree with you or the intelligence of gate agents. It's particularly inappropriate for a forum moderator to insult others.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 9:44 am
  #498  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Remember that a China visa (one needed per person, including children) currently costs $160 plus fees for special passport sized photos and (for those who don't live in a city with a Chinese consulate) visa service agency fees and FedEx costs. For a family, this can easily exceed a thousand dollars. Most families would prefer not to waste this much money just because there are airline agents who can't/won't do their jobs correctly and think it's just fine to refuse boarding based on their misinformation.
The 144 TWOV should be promoted by airlines to gain additional revenue from travelers who would otherwise choose a "destination" that might be served by a competitor.
To deny error and fail to swiftly provide compensation makes no practical business sense.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 9:47 am
  #499  
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
We are a friendly and welcoming forum

You'll note that many in this forum disagree that the description in Timatic comports with your explanation of how TWOV works in a practical sense. No need to insult those who disagree with you or the intelligence of gate agents. It's particularly inappropriate for a forum moderator to insult others.
I concede that some people are incapable of connecting the dots based on timatic alone, but this does not change the fact that the employee who wronged the OP was grossly incompetent. As has been pointed out, he/she had other means to confirm the compliance of the OP's itinerary (e.g. call consulate, Shanghai immigration, colleagues who are more experienced), but simply dropped the ball. If that comes across as insulting, I apologise.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 10:01 am
  #500  
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Is the report completed on Shanghai flight revenues after the January 30 ,2016
144 TWOV went into effect? That move by the Chinese govt was fantastic, great for a family trip...and Shanghai Disney just opened too.

Will let you know as soon as we settle the lawsuits.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 2:52 pm
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Respecting Microwave's post 456, I'll just add one comment: What's particularly egregious and disturbing about OP's situation is that AA forced him to pay more to refare due to (improperly) denying the OP travel. The fact that they now refuse to reimburse even the fare difference, in full and in cash, is not a tenable stance because now there is a situation where AA improperly denied pax travel and AA profited from it. I don't think this specifically is ever a motivation for AA agents, but it's bad optics / looks terrible for AA when they leave open the possibility that check-in agents can wrongly deny pax boarding so that they can force them to pay a higher fare.

Last edited by gengar; Apr 24, 17 at 3:40 pm Reason: ugh, what is this hashtag nonsense
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Old Apr 24, 17, 3:37 pm
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This thread is like a time warp for me. I swear there was a virtually identical thread in the NW or DL forum when I lived in Singapore and the general consensus there was probably to avoid use of a 'Murican carrier if you want to avail yourself to TWOV because those carriers either don't know that it even exists as an option or don't understand that it can be used on a roundtrip ticket where the arrival and embarkation countries are different, regardless of whether there is a "stopover" as defined by IATA or merely a connection. I recall that thread had a ton of (mostly American) people who had never used TWOV opining on how it should be interpreted, plus ca change...
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Old Apr 24, 17, 4:33 pm
  #503  
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https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...false&from=Nav

International travel


Preparations for international travel

International travel doesn’t have to be tricky
– just make sure your travel documents and required paperwork are in order. When you travel internationally, you’re responsible to make sure you have the correct documents to enter and pass through any countries during your trip, and then make your way back home.


Check with the consulate of every country you’re entering (or passing through) to make sure you meet all travel requirements.
Some countries require proof of return or onward travel, a visiting address and sufficient funds for your stay.



Travel requirements and documents

Make sure to check entry requirements with the consulate of the countries you plan to visit before you travel.
You’re responsible for bringing the correct documents for international
travel.

If you don’t have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs.

Not sure what documentation OP was missing?
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Old Apr 24, 17, 5:13 pm
  #504  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...false&from=Nav

International travel

Preparations for international travel

International travel doesn’t have to be tricky – just make sure your travel documents and required paperwork are in order. When you travel internationally, you’re responsible to make sure you have the correct documents to enter and pass through any countries during your trip, and then make your way back home.


Check with the consulate of every country you’re entering (or passing through) to make sure you meet all travel requirements.
Some countries require proof of return or onward travel, a visiting address and sufficient funds for your stay.



Travel requirements and documents

Make sure to check entry requirements with the consulate of the countries you plan to visit before you travel.
You’re responsible for bringing the correct documents for international
travel.

If you don’t have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs.

Not sure what documentation OP was missing?
The OP wasn't missing any documentation. This is the whole point of this thread. Instead an AA agent applied rules that don't exist to deny OP boarding.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 5:27 pm
  #505  
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
Instead an AA agent applied rules that don't exist to deny OP boarding.
I wonder how busy that AAgent is applying all the rules that do exist? Having to ensure pax have adequate funds to cover their trips to countries where that's a requirement. Making sure pax to Australia, New Zealand, Canada (etc) don't have a resume in their possession (grounds for refusal if travelling as a tourist). And what about those with 23hr59min 'transits' on award tickets... if there's an earlier connection that would be scamming the system? Better head off to the ticket desk and bad luck if there are no award seats left now.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 5:59 pm
  #506  
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
The OP wasn't missing any documentation. This is the whole point of this thread. Instead an AA agent applied rules that don't exist to deny OP boarding.
If OP wasn't missing any document, ie: visa, a reasonable person would assume based on their response they would "accept responsibility for expenses, delays, reroutings or other losses.." and compensate quickly.

Documentation requirements for international travel can change frequently -- sometimes with little advance notice. It is therefore our policy -- and that of most other airlines -- that documentation requirements are the full responsibility of the traveler who should verify with the Consulate prior to departure.

Our personnel are trained to verify pertinent entry and exit regulations by the use of a sophisticated data base which we subscribe to and provides us with up-to-date information on the requirements and regulations for nearly 200 countries. Since we are subject to substantial government fines for transporting customers without proper documentation, we use this data base to make decisions about whether or not to accept customers for travel based on the documentation in their possession at the time of departure. Nonetheless, since there are many changes and a limitless number of variables, we do not accept responsibility for expenses, delays, reroutings or other losses associated to international documentation.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 6:17 pm
  #507  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
If OP wasn't missing any document, ie: visa, a reasonable person would assume based on their response they would "accept responsibility for expenses, delays, reroutings or other losses.." and compensate quickly.
No, it states the exact opposite. Start with "nonetheless.."
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Old Apr 24, 17, 6:27 pm
  #508  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
No, it states the exact opposite. Start with "nonetheless.."
That's scary.
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Old Apr 24, 17, 6:30 pm
  #509  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
No, it states the exact opposite. Start with "nonetheless.."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_(logic)

Last edited by moondog; Apr 24, 17 at 7:28 pm
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Old Apr 24, 17, 6:59 pm
  #510  
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"We use this data base to make decisions about whether or not to accept customers for travel based on the documentation in their possession at the time of departure."

There was no documentation in their possession and no need for documentation.

This is a catchall. Anyone traveling internationally could be wrongfully denied boarding, with no recourse, for "documentation" or lack of. Best to find an airline that has better "trained" personnel.


They need to change their website from
"If you don’t have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs."
to
If you do or don't or we think you might not have the required documentation and identification,you will not be allowed to board the plane and would be responsible for any resulting costs.

Last edited by anacapamalibu; Apr 24, 17 at 7:15 pm
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