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ARCHIVE: AA 737 MAX 8 SSW / 7M8 aircraft in service Nov 2017 (discussion)

Old Jan 24, 2017, 8:58 pm
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All posts regarding AA 737 MAX 8 safety etc. as related to the crashes have been consolidated in one thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...37-max-8s.html.

This thread is dedicated to general discussion of the 737 MAX 8. There are other threads to post to:

Recent crashes and effect on AA: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1939333-recent-737-max-crashes-effects-aa-737-max-8s.html

7M8 First / Business cabin and MiQ seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1880631-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-first-business-seats-etc.html

7M8 Main Cabin and MCE cabins, Meridian seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1892121-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-meridian-main-cabin-mce-seats-etc.html

7M8 Space overhead bins related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1951594-max-oasis-big-bins-agents-told-not-proactively-gate-check-bags-jan-2019-a.html

7M8 Spacewall lavatory related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1919254-737-max-8-bathrooms-air-carrier-access-act-compliant.html

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Configuration is F 16, 156 Y (of which 30 are MCE) IFE WiFi streaming, Internet WiFi via ViaSat, 110 VAC Universal plug plus 5 VDC USB low output.

For the Guide / master threads on this aircraft, please see

Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 First / Business Seats, Etc.

and Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 Main Cabin, MCE Seats, Etc.

In the order of Boeing 737 aircraft, AA included 100 737 MAX 8 orders with options for 60 more. The first 737 MAX -8 flew at the assembly facility in Renton, WAshington, USA on 29 Jan 2016. Deliveries to AA commenced in late in 2017, with four delivered in 2017. 16 more will be delivered during 2018, 20 during 2019. IATA code B38M; AA code "7M8".

NOTE: ALL 737-800s (and two class A321-32B) will be retrofitted to 737 MAX 8 seating, slimline advanced lavatories, IFE and WiFi standards under Project Oasis over the next three years.
American Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 8 SSW

The 737 MAX 8* is essentially a replacement to the 737-800 with passenger capacity of 172. (Read onward for seat configuration.) Range with Advanced Technology (AT) Split Scimitar Winglets is expected to be 3,515 nmi (6,510 km). (In comparison, the APB Blended Winglets 737-800 has range of 3,115 nmi or 5,765 km fully loaded.) See this page on Gizmodo for more information.

The fourth generation 737 MAX 8 (first flight 2016) includes airframe and wingtip modifications (Boeing Scimitar Advanced Technology Winglets) for enhanced efficiency and will use the larger and more efficient CFM International LEAP-1B engines. This will allegedly allow a 20% improvement in fuel burn over A320 aircraft, a 4% improvement over the A320neo* (new engine option), a 14% fuel burn reduction over the 737NG / 737-823 currently in use and a 37% fuel burn reduction over the 757-200.

(*The slightly longer and longer range A321-200neo will come in 2019.)

Boeing 737-800 Scimitar Split Winglets

The 737 MAX has the Boeing Sky Interior with LED interior lighting based on the Boeing 787 interior, overhead bins and fee-based ViaSat satellite-based Ka band WiFi. Individual seatback seatback video screens are no longer offered; AA has chosen free high quality live streaming music and movies (streamed from an onboard server and generally using the free downloadable GoGo Entertainment app) and high speed ViaSat Ka band Internet are said to be both sufficient and the wave of the future. At seat power is universal plug at 110 VAC plus 5.1 VDC USB; "large" overhead (cases stand on side) bins are provided.

The new 787 MAX aircraft carry 172 passengers: 16 in First, 30 in Main Cabin Extra and 126 in Main Cabin for a total of 172. Main Cabin will feature 30" seat pitch with Rockwell Collins Interior Design "Meridian" slimline seats, which AA states these seats' 30" pitch "feels like" 31" and is a more comfortable seat than previous generations (of slimline seats). The new Spacewall ultra slimline lavatory (29 in F, 24 in Y) are densified, as well.

(AA revised its original plans to provide some rows of 29" pitch seats in the MAX 8 by switching out one MCE row, as of 12 June 2017.) See memo posted by CO777 in post 377.

"An American spokesman said the airline will add 40 Max jets to its fleet by the end of 2019. It has 100 on order." Existing and remaining Boeing 737-800 / 823s (two-class A321 and 32B aircraft will be densified with the new Meridian seats and Spacewall lavatories as well) will be configured to the same seat plan as the 737-MAX 8, going from 160 to 172 total seats.


Link to full article in CNN Money, 3 May 2017.

*Boeing aircraft are changing nomenclature. Like the existing 747-8 and 787-8 and -9, the 737 MAX 8 on order by AA will be the -8, not -800.

HISTORICAL / COMPARISON:

Boeing 737-100 "Fat Albert" entered service with Lufthansa in 1968
MTOW 110,000 lb; Range 1,540 nm; 85 passengers in 2 class config

Boeing 737-400 "Classic" entered service in 1984
MTOW 150,000 lb; Range ~2,100 nm; 147 passengers in 2 class config

Boeing 737-800 "Next Generation" entered service in 1998
MTOW 174,200 lb; Range ~2,935 nm; 150-160-172 passengers in 2 AA class config

Boeing 737 MAX 8 entered service in 2017
MTOW 181,200 lb; Range 3,610 nm; 172 passengers in AA 2 class config

*Click HERE for a list of registration tail numbers of 737 MAX 8 deliveries.

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ARCHIVE: AA 737 MAX 8 SSW / 7M8 aircraft in service Nov 2017 (discussion)

Old Jan 4, 2018, 12:09 pm
  #361  
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Originally Posted by JDiver
Like LHR-ATH, or LHR-IST? I’ve done those recently on BA narrowbodies aurcrzft with 30” pitch in “Club Europe”, or was it “Club the tall passengers”?
It is called Club Europe because the taker: Europeans does not value their money spent. They have been given worse crap and they take it as it is. Look at BA forums that how many people would defend BA's inhuman Club seats since years ago (Hurray! It is no longer 2-3 seating arrangement and let us celebrate!...What? It is only 30 inches now? Let us Enjoy!). If BA is in the US, such non-sense would not exit. Customer outrage would scare the company to take the leap. Then again look at how BA can get away with fuel surcharges that is more expensive than a return coach ticket and seat reservation fees for business class. It is really Club Europe: Club U-robbed and never heard a complaint (if so they are not European). Sometimes I just look at BA forum at amaze that people criticizing Ryanair being LCC and then BA took the worse LCC policies people just defend BA because it is BA.

At least in US, when AA customer make stronger enough noise, AA does listen and occasionally change.
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 12:55 pm
  #362  
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Originally Posted by chongcao
It is called Club Europe because the taker: Europeans does not value their money spent. They have been given worse crap and they take it as it is. Look at BA forums that how many people would defend BA's inhuman Club seats since years ago (Hurray! It is no longer 2-3 seating arrangement and let us celebrate!...What? It is only 30 inches now? Let us Enjoy!). If BA is in the US, such non-sense would not exit. Customer outrage would scare the company to take the leap.
But then Club Europe prices are regularly pretty cheap. In sales or with advance purchase you can get to most of Western Europe from London for not much more than 200 return. There aren't many 2hr each way returns that I can get out of LGA/JFK for $300 return.
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 1:57 pm
  #363  
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Originally Posted by JDiver
Like LHR-ATH, or LHR-IST? Ive done those recently on BA narrowbodies aurcrzft with 30 pitch in Club Europe, or was it Club the tall passengers?
That's certainly the exception. The majority of flights operated by these aircraft are far shorter.
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 7:09 pm
  #364  
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BA has some flatbed a320s that operate the longest 320 routes. They inherited them from BMI.
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 9:19 pm
  #365  
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Originally Posted by cmd320
They work because customers' standards are lower.
What are customer expectations in the US and how do they differ?
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 7:19 am
  #366  
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Originally Posted by DatBoi
BA has some flatbed a320s that operate the longest 320 routes. They inherited them from BMI.
Those are A321s and used to operate the "midhaul" routes, they were never intended to operate premium shorthaul or anything along those lines. They do sometimes end up rotating through the system on shorter routes but BA are actually phasing those aircraft out. Some of them have been converted to regular shorthaul configuration.
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Old Jan 7, 2018, 11:49 am
  #367  
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Originally Posted by DatBoi
What are customer expectations in the US and how do they differ?
Most customers in the US just expect a slightly larger seat and some free alcohol. The majority aren't paying for it anyway, they just get free upgrades to sit there. That's a big part of why the products are generally such trash.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 12:03 am
  #368  
 
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Originally Posted by nrr
AA currently offers GOGO WIFI--two weeks ago just reading emails was slow, they even note that "streaming" is NOT supported.
Even with fast(er) WIFI, not everyone owns Laptops etc., so that those pax will be left to read only AMERICAN WAY magazine for several hours.
There is a difference. The plane to ground via cell network connectivity is slow and cannot handle the capacity of 50%+ of the plane connected to it.

The streaming entertainment is provided by servers on the plane and the wifi bandwith can handle that workload for the most parts.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by bse118
Sure, there will be cases at the margins where people end up in these seats, but unlikely that that will both be a big enough number of passengers and happen often enough to cause those passengers to book away from AA so as to have any appreciable negative effect on AA's revenue.

Remember FT is a representative sample of AAs customer base.
I know this is an old thread, but am I more likely to end up in the 29 inch pitch on an airline where I have no status, or an airline where I have next to top tier status?

When everyone is doing it, I figure I might as well fly where I have the lesser chance of experiencing the worst.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 11:19 am
  #370  
 
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Originally Posted by diver858
^^^

Airlines understand their customers, respond accordingly.

It is not an accident that AA now only recognizes Concierge Key customers during the boarding process; all other elites, priority customers are simply a number.
Yes, but I did spend $15K on AA last year. That doesn't get me CK, but I hope it makes be worth at least a little acknowledgement. (This was not $14K spent on cheap economy fares, more then 80% of it was in business or higher.)
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by jordyn
So presumably your employer can pay for a seat with enough space to open the laptop? For most employees that it's worth paying to fly around, I'd imagine this would represent a positive ROI.
My former employer did not pay for anything but the cheapest economy tickets. If my status didn't give me MCE, then I'd have to pay it myself. Since I couldn't control the airline, my loyalty was earned through directing my leisure dollars.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 11:52 am
  #372  
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Originally Posted by makfan
Yes, but I did spend $15K on AA last year. That doesn't get me CK, but I hope it makes be worth at least a little acknowledgement. (This was not $14K spent on cheap economy fares, more then 80% of it was in business or higher.)
Sorry, but $15k spend really gets you nothing extra beyond your status entitlement on AA.

Those of us, myself included, who have been grousing over the “sardine can” configuration AA is introducing with the MAX 8 and extending to the 737-800 might be slightly placated by the fact AA is NOT emulating BA - which is eliminating seat recline in Economy / Euro Traveller for flights under four hours.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 12:15 pm
  #373  
 
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Originally Posted by formeraa
What is your point here? The MD80's, which were plentiful a few years ago, never had overhead monitors. The safety briefing was always done "manually". It is part of the FA's job!
I believe the point was the transition away from manual safety demonstrations to video demonstrations has now come full circle.

I have not been a fan of the space age safety video, so I personally won't miss it.

My last AA trip was LUS and some Eagle flight, so I haven't seen a video demo in a bit.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 12:17 pm
  #374  
 
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Originally Posted by JDiver
Sorry, but $15k spend really gets you nothing extra beyond your status entitlement on AA.

Those of us, myself included, who have been grousing over the “sardine can” configuration AA is introducing with the MAX 8 and extending to the 737-800 might be slightly placated by the fact AA is NOT emulating BA - which is eliminating seat recline in Economy / Euro Traveller for flights under four hours.
Oh I do get it, but I bristle at the "pay for it" comments. I think I am paying for it. I'm certainly not a 1x/year cheapest fare flyer. (And what I do get that is priceless is great treatment at SFO where so many people know me by now.)

Most of 2018 travel is on Alaska/Virgin so far, but that's due to the city pairs more than anything. I think the business travel will get me to AS MVP Gold. I won't make AA EXP for sure. I started a new business and won't have the time for the leisure travel I would need to get EXP. It'll be weird after so many years.

My conclusion is that denser cabins with few amenities and ancillary fees everywhere have resulted in much better profits, so all the grumbling in the world isn't likely to change much of anything. I haven't been reading FT much of late, to be honest, but I saw something on the 737MAX and wondered what people thought. Not much of surprise here.

Last edited by makfan; Jan 24, 2018 at 12:23 pm Reason: Typos, clarify a point, add a conclusion.
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Old Jan 24, 2018, 12:30 pm
  #375  
 
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Originally Posted by makfan
Yes, but I did spend $15K on AA last year. That doesn't get me CK, but I hope it makes be worth at least a little acknowledgement. (This was not $14K spent on cheap economy fares, more then 80% of it was in business or higher.)
I hate to break it to you, but $15k is chump change. I have a client who has a $1M annual travel budget and AA wouldn't even look at them twice in terms of giving them special discounts.
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