Jan 24, 2017, 8:58 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Please edit or add information to this wiki as necessary.
Configuration is F 16, 156 Y (of which 30 are MCE) IFE WiFi streaming, Internet WiFi via ViaSat, 110 VAC Universal plug plus 5 VDC USB low output.
For the Guide / master threads on this aircraft, please see
Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 First / Business Seats, Etc.
and Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 Main Cabin, MCE Seats, Etc.
In the order of Boeing 737 aircraft, AA included 100 737 MAX 8 orders with options for 60 more. The first 737 MAX -8 flew at the assembly facility in Renton, WAshington, USA on 29 Jan 2016. Deliveries to AA commenced in late in 2017, with four delivered in 2017. 16 more will be delivered during 2018, 20 during 2019. IATA code B38M; AA code "7M8".
NOTE: ALL 737-800s (and two class A321-32B) will be retrofitted to 737 MAX 8 seating, slimline “advanced“ lavatories, IFE and WiFi standards under Project Oasis over the next three years.
The 737 MAX 8* is essentially a replacement to the 737-800 with passenger capacity of 172. (Read onward for seat configuration.) Range with Advanced Technology (AT) Split Scimitar Winglets is expected to be 3,515 nmi (6,510 km). (In comparison, the APB Blended Winglets 737-800 has range of 3,115 nmi or 5,765 km fully loaded.) See this page on Gizmodo for more information.
The fourth generation 737 MAX 8 (first flight 2016) includes airframe and wingtip modifications (Boeing “Scimitar” Advanced Technology Winglets) for enhanced efficiency and will use the larger and more efficient CFM International LEAP-1B engines. This will allegedly allow a 20% improvement in fuel burn over A320 aircraft, a 4% improvement over the A320neo* (new engine option), a 14% fuel burn reduction over the 737NG / 737-823 currently in use and a 37% fuel burn reduction over the 757-200.
(*The slightly longer and longer range A321-200neo will come in 2019.)
Boeing 737-800 Scimitar Split Winglets
The 737 MAX has the Boeing Sky Interior with LED interior lighting based on the Boeing 787 interior, overhead bins and fee-based ViaSat satellite-based Ka band WiFi. Individual seatback seatback video screens are no longer offered; AA has chosen free high quality live streaming music and movies (streamed from an onboard server and generally using the free downloadable GoGo Entertainment app) and high speed ViaSat Ka band Internet are said to be both sufficient and “the wave of the future”. At seat power is universal plug at 110 VAC plus 5.1 VDC USB; "large" overhead (cases stand on side) bins are provided.
The new 787 MAX aircraft carry 172 passengers: 16 in First, 30 in Main Cabin Extra and 126 in Main Cabin for a total of 172. Main Cabin will feature 30" seat pitch with Rockwell Collins Interior Design "Meridian" slimline seats, which AA states these seats' 30" pitch "feels like" 31" and is a more comfortable seat than previous generations (of slimline seats). The new “Spacewall“ ultra slimline lavatory (29” in F, 24” in Y) are “densified”, as well.
(AA revised its original plans to provide some rows of 29" pitch seats in the MAX 8 by switching out one MCE row, as of 12 June 2017.) See memo posted by CO777 in post 377.
"An American spokesman said the airline will add 40 Max jets to its fleet by the end of 2019. It has 100 on order." Existing and remaining Boeing 737-800 / 823s (two-class A321 and 32B aircraft will be “densified” with the new Meridian seats and Spacewall lavatories as well) will be configured to the same seat plan as the 737-MAX 8, going from 160 to 172 total seats.
Link to full article in CNN Money, 3 May 2017.
*Boeing aircraft are changing nomenclature. Like the existing 747-8 and 787-8 and -9, the 737 MAX 8 on order by AA will be the -8, not -800.
HISTORICAL / COMPARISON:
Boeing 737-100 "Fat Albert" entered service with Lufthansa in 1968
MTOW 110,000 lb; Range 1,540 nm; 85 passengers in 2 class config
Boeing 737-400 "Classic" entered service in 1984
MTOW 150,000 lb; Range ~2,100 nm; 147 passengers in 2 class config
Boeing 737-800 "Next Generation" entered service in 1998
MTOW 174,200 lb; Range ~2,935 nm; 150-160-172 passengers in 2 AA class config
Boeing 737 MAX 8 entered service in 2017
MTOW 181,200 lb; Range 3,610 nm; 172 passengers in AA 2 class config
*Click HERE for a list of registration “tail” numbers of 737 MAX 8 deliveries.
All posts regarding AA 737 MAX 8 safety etc. as related to the crashes have been consolidated in one thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...37-max-8s.html.
This thread is dedicated to general discussion of the 737 MAX 8. There are other threads to post to:
Recent crashes and effect on AA: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1939333-recent-737-max-crashes-effects-aa-737-max-8s.html
7M8 First / Business cabin and MiQ seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1880631-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-first-business-seats-etc.html
7M8 Main Cabin and MCE cabins, Meridian seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1892121-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-meridian-main-cabin-mce-seats-etc.html
7M8 Space overhead bins related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1951594-max-oasis-big-bins-agents-told-not-proactively-gate-check-bags-jan-2019-a.html
7M8 Spacewall lavatory related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1919254-737-max-8-bathrooms-air-carrier-access-act-compliant.html
Moderator
This thread is dedicated to general discussion of the 737 MAX 8. There are other threads to post to:
Recent crashes and effect on AA: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1939333-recent-737-max-crashes-effects-aa-737-max-8s.html
7M8 First / Business cabin and MiQ seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1880631-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-first-business-seats-etc.html
7M8 Main Cabin and MCE cabins, Meridian seats: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1892121-aircraft-guide-aa-boeing-737-max-8-7m8-meridian-main-cabin-mce-seats-etc.html
7M8 Space overhead bins related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1951594-max-oasis-big-bins-agents-told-not-proactively-gate-check-bags-jan-2019-a.html
7M8 Spacewall lavatory related: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1919254-737-max-8-bathrooms-air-carrier-access-act-compliant.html
Moderator
For the Guide / master threads on this aircraft, please see
Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 First / Business Seats, Etc.
and Guide: AA Boeing 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 Main Cabin, MCE Seats, Etc.
In the order of Boeing 737 aircraft, AA included 100 737 MAX 8 orders with options for 60 more. The first 737 MAX -8 flew at the assembly facility in Renton, WAshington, USA on 29 Jan 2016. Deliveries to AA commenced in late in 2017, with four delivered in 2017. 16 more will be delivered during 2018, 20 during 2019. IATA code B38M; AA code "7M8".
NOTE: ALL 737-800s (and two class A321-32B) will be retrofitted to 737 MAX 8 seating, slimline “advanced“ lavatories, IFE and WiFi standards under Project Oasis over the next three years.
American Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 8 SSW
The 737 MAX 8* is essentially a replacement to the 737-800 with passenger capacity of 172. (Read onward for seat configuration.) Range with Advanced Technology (AT) Split Scimitar Winglets is expected to be 3,515 nmi (6,510 km). (In comparison, the APB Blended Winglets 737-800 has range of 3,115 nmi or 5,765 km fully loaded.) See this page on Gizmodo for more information.
The fourth generation 737 MAX 8 (first flight 2016) includes airframe and wingtip modifications (Boeing “Scimitar” Advanced Technology Winglets) for enhanced efficiency and will use the larger and more efficient CFM International LEAP-1B engines. This will allegedly allow a 20% improvement in fuel burn over A320 aircraft, a 4% improvement over the A320neo* (new engine option), a 14% fuel burn reduction over the 737NG / 737-823 currently in use and a 37% fuel burn reduction over the 757-200.
(*The slightly longer and longer range A321-200neo will come in 2019.)
Boeing 737-800 Scimitar Split Winglets
The 737 MAX has the Boeing Sky Interior with LED interior lighting based on the Boeing 787 interior, overhead bins and fee-based ViaSat satellite-based Ka band WiFi. Individual seatback seatback video screens are no longer offered; AA has chosen free high quality live streaming music and movies (streamed from an onboard server and generally using the free downloadable GoGo Entertainment app) and high speed ViaSat Ka band Internet are said to be both sufficient and “the wave of the future”. At seat power is universal plug at 110 VAC plus 5.1 VDC USB; "large" overhead (cases stand on side) bins are provided.
The new 787 MAX aircraft carry 172 passengers: 16 in First, 30 in Main Cabin Extra and 126 in Main Cabin for a total of 172. Main Cabin will feature 30" seat pitch with Rockwell Collins Interior Design "Meridian" slimline seats, which AA states these seats' 30" pitch "feels like" 31" and is a more comfortable seat than previous generations (of slimline seats). The new “Spacewall“ ultra slimline lavatory (29” in F, 24” in Y) are “densified”, as well.
(AA revised its original plans to provide some rows of 29" pitch seats in the MAX 8 by switching out one MCE row, as of 12 June 2017.) See memo posted by CO777 in post 377.
"An American spokesman said the airline will add 40 Max jets to its fleet by the end of 2019. It has 100 on order." Existing and remaining Boeing 737-800 / 823s (two-class A321 and 32B aircraft will be “densified” with the new Meridian seats and Spacewall lavatories as well) will be configured to the same seat plan as the 737-MAX 8, going from 160 to 172 total seats.
Link to full article in CNN Money, 3 May 2017.
*Boeing aircraft are changing nomenclature. Like the existing 747-8 and 787-8 and -9, the 737 MAX 8 on order by AA will be the -8, not -800.
HISTORICAL / COMPARISON:
Boeing 737-100 "Fat Albert" entered service with Lufthansa in 1968
MTOW 110,000 lb; Range 1,540 nm; 85 passengers in 2 class config
Boeing 737-400 "Classic" entered service in 1984
MTOW 150,000 lb; Range ~2,100 nm; 147 passengers in 2 class config
Boeing 737-800 "Next Generation" entered service in 1998
MTOW 174,200 lb; Range ~2,935 nm; 150-160-172 passengers in 2 AA class config
Boeing 737 MAX 8 entered service in 2017
MTOW 181,200 lb; Range 3,610 nm; 172 passengers in AA 2 class config
*Click HERE for a list of registration “tail” numbers of 737 MAX 8 deliveries.
ARCHIVE: AA 737 MAX 8 SSW / 7M8 aircraft in service Nov 2017 (discussion)
May 3, 2017, 11:32 am
#106
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
Predicted 2020-2022 era FT post: "Man I wish we had the CR2, that was so much more comfortable"
E175 is a very nice ride - as it sits today. No reason AA and others can't find a way to craptastically ruin that too.
This makes me wonder - what does the future look like on the Airbus side of the house? In the last few years, I've found the A32x series to be overall much more comfortable than the 737 variants.
E175 is a very nice ride - as it sits today. No reason AA and others can't find a way to craptastically ruin that too.
This makes me wonder - what does the future look like on the Airbus side of the house? In the last few years, I've found the A32x series to be overall much more comfortable than the 737 variants.
May 3, 2017, 11:34 am
#107
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,222
I'm going to guess (hope?) that those flying on Basic Economy fares will be more likely to end up in these seats, assuming nobody else voluntarily chooses them.
Of course in IRROPS, yeah, EXPs could end up there; maybe they could withhold BE assignments until boarding starts. If they charged for paper BPs ("forcing" people to use the app), that would allow it to be relatively seamless. Probably too much of an IT headache for AA though.
Of course in IRROPS, yeah, EXPs could end up there; maybe they could withhold BE assignments until boarding starts. If they charged for paper BPs ("forcing" people to use the app), that would allow it to be relatively seamless. Probably too much of an IT headache for AA though.
May 3, 2017, 11:37 am
#108
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA- EXP UA - Silver SPG- PLT Marriott- PLT
Posts: 755
How does the math work to go from 160 to 170? Are they adding one more row of F? Are they only adding a coach row with 4 seats? The math doesn't work out.
May 3, 2017, 11:48 am
#109
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
"Mine is smaller"
"No, mine is smaller"
"No seriously, mine is the smallest"
....bragged no one ever - except airline execs.
"No, mine is smaller"
"No seriously, mine is the smallest"
....bragged no one ever - except airline execs.
May 3, 2017, 12:00 pm
#110
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 19
Geez 29"? That actually crosses the line for me. I am sure there are taller members here but I am 6'3" and even 31" in some aircraft means my knees touch the magazine holders, etc. As it is now I try to get flights for work on Southwest as basically everything they fly is 31" in Economy. I actively avoid Delta for this same seat pitch reason as I had a flight 3 years ago where I just couldnt put my legs together. Awful.
Maybe I will just have to push harder for strictly business class flights through my employer if this type of cramming is the way things are going.
Maybe I will just have to push harder for strictly business class flights through my employer if this type of cramming is the way things are going.
May 3, 2017, 12:15 pm
#111
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,625
The A321s are rumored to go up to 190 seats (from 181 or 187). The A319s are reported as cramped and uncomfortable, so I wouldn't expect any comfort advantages on the A321s to last much longer.
May 3, 2017, 12:16 pm
#112
Join Date: Jan 2003
Programs: American Airlines Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 3,790
There are going to be some really mad infrequent business travelers who pay top dollar for a coach ticket and end up in these new cramped seats.
May 3, 2017, 12:21 pm
#113
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
Geez 29"? That actually crosses the line for me. I am sure there are taller members here but I am 6'3" and even 31" in some aircraft means my knees touch the magazine holders, etc. As it is now I try to get flights for work on Southwest as basically everything they fly is 31" in Economy. I actively avoid Delta for this same seat pitch reason as I had a flight 3 years ago where I just couldnt put my legs together. Awful.
Maybe I will just have to push harder for strictly business class flights through my employer if this type of cramming is the way things are going.
Maybe I will just have to push harder for strictly business class flights through my employer if this type of cramming is the way things are going.
They could use space saving lavatories like what Delta uses on its 737-900s
The A321s are rumored to go up to 190 seats (from 181 or 187). The A319s are reported as cramped and uncomfortable, so I wouldn't expect any comfort advantages on the A321s to last much longer.
The A321s are rumored to go up to 190 seats (from 181 or 187). The A319s are reported as cramped and uncomfortable, so I wouldn't expect any comfort advantages on the A321s to last much longer.
May 3, 2017, 12:29 pm
#114
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 19
Mostly though I think this is just me flying in Economy and not being a good fit (literally) for this type of travel when I am on business.
May 3, 2017, 12:40 pm
#115
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
737 MIN aircraft is what they should call this -- MIN comfort for the MAX number of passengers.
May 3, 2017, 12:46 pm
#116
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
You have to remember to 99% of Americans this is non interesting story=until they fly next time then suddenly they are like "wow what's going on here, I can barely fit in this seat." My own opinion is that the legacy's are moving towards a two class system-F and meals for CKs, Paid F and some lucky EXPs and the rest the "Spirit" experience. Maybe B6 will be the exception until Wall Street beats up their CEO.
I was looking at some pictures of flying from years gone by. Other than the cigarette smoke I could give up the wifi, mobile BPs, and AVOD for some old fashion one movie screen D10s or 707s.
I was looking at some pictures of flying from years gone by. Other than the cigarette smoke I could give up the wifi, mobile BPs, and AVOD for some old fashion one movie screen D10s or 707s.
May 3, 2017, 12:49 pm
#117
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,311
Yes, we would like to hear from US congress. Let's hear what he had to says.
That's real stupid! I don't like that. Unacceptable! Those customer want to watch IFE. They had it right to watch IFE. Whatever if they want. It's their choice.
May 3, 2017, 12:51 pm
#118
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego, Ca
Programs: AA 2MM LT PLT; AS MVP Gold75k; HHonors Diamond; IHG PLT
Posts: 3,502
Seat guru is your friend...
May 3, 2017, 12:54 pm
#119
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 29,973
AA's expedited race to the bottom continues. I'm sure UA and DL will follow up shortly. It only takes one carrier to make the move then the others follow.
May 3, 2017, 1:06 pm
#120
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: HSV (formerly AUS)
Programs: AA MM (like it matters!) All of my flying was personal travel, and COVID-19 stopped that.
Posts: 223
When the A319s first joined the AA lineup, they used them in HSV to replace S80s. I looked at the specs. The A319s had fewer seats than the S80s, with RJ seat pitch instead of S80 seat pitch, and the S80 hops routinely flew 100% seats full.
I observed to one of the old guard GAs here that the choice of the A319 said very interesting things about AA's market forecast: they expected their passenger base to decline, not increase or even stay the same.
How much of it was that they wanted to move people over to pmUS flights and metal, I don't know.
It was clear to me at the time (pre-merger) that the Airbus buy meant that the merger was already a done deal, no matter what anyone said. AA at that time owned ZERO Airbus metal and had ZERO Airbus maintenance capability. The Airbus purchase price had to include buying the maintenance facilities, spare parts, and training the people - or they had to be planning on shipping the Airbus metal to US Airways facilities (which would likely have to be expanded).