15 year old (minor) cannot take last flight of day? (to merge)
Jul 26, 2016, 2:14 pm
#16
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,083
Please just call again. I think the res agent you spoke to possibly was misreading.
My reading is "15 - 17 Not utilizing the UMNR Special Services" has none of the conditions listed under: "15 - 17 request(ing) UMNR Special Services" (where, as we see, there are quite a few conditions.)
Could be that there's more to it, but I'd say another call is in order.
My reading is "15 - 17 Not utilizing the UMNR Special Services" has none of the conditions listed under: "15 - 17 request(ing) UMNR Special Services" (where, as we see, there are quite a few conditions.)
Could be that there's more to it, but I'd say another call is in order.
Jul 26, 2016, 4:33 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: LAX
Posts: 42
From the CoC:
Acceptance of children
Accompanied
Children 2 through 14 years of age will be accepted for transportation when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age or parent regardless of age.
Infants at least 2 days of age, but less than 2 years of age, will be accepted when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age, or parent regardless of age subject to:
For infants 2 through 6 days of age, a medical statement may be required stating the infant is stable for travel
One infant under 2 years of age accompanied by a fare paying passenger, may be carried at no charge, on his or her lap
The age of the infant is based on the age at commencement of travel
Unaccompanied
A service charge will be assessed for unaccompanied children on all flights.
Unaccompanied children, a child/minor under 15 years of age, not accompanied on the same flight and in the same compartment by a passenger at least 16 years of age or parent regardless of age.
Unaccompanied children under 5 years of age will not be accepted under any circumstances.
Unaccompanied children 5, 6 or 7 years of age will be accepted on a non-stop or through flights only, and must be accompanied by a parent or responsible adult until the child is boarded on the flight and the aircraft has departed the gate. The child must be met at the destination by another parent or responsible adult.
Unaccompanied children ages 5-7 are restricted on flights scheduled with a change from one aircraft to another type of aircraft before termination, but designated by a single flight number.
Unaccompanied children 5, 6, or 7 years of age will not be accepted on certain American flights operated in equipment not requiring a flight attendant. Contact American for specific information.
Unaccompanied children 8 through 14 years of age will be accepted for transportation on non-stop, through or connecting flights. Connecting flights must be through the following airports: CLT, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAX, LGA, MIA, ORD, PHL, PHX. Reservations must be confirmed to the destination. The child must be accompanied by a parent or responsible adult until the child has boarded the flight and the aircraft has departed the gate. The child must be met at the destination by another parent or responsible adult.
American does not accept unaccompanied children when their itinerary includes a connection to/from another airline, including codeshare and oneworld partners.
American will not accept reservations or provide transportation for unaccompanied children for any itinerary that includes the last online connecting flight of the day.
American may refuse to provide connection air transportation services at any origination city to an unaccompanied child holding reservations when there is a reasonable likelihood that the child will not make a flight connection, and therefore require overnight accommodations.
Please note our flight attendants are unable to continuously monitor an unaccompanied child during their flight.
Accompanied
Children 2 through 14 years of age will be accepted for transportation when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age or parent regardless of age.
Infants at least 2 days of age, but less than 2 years of age, will be accepted when accompanied by a passenger at least 16 years of age, or parent regardless of age subject to:
For infants 2 through 6 days of age, a medical statement may be required stating the infant is stable for travel
One infant under 2 years of age accompanied by a fare paying passenger, may be carried at no charge, on his or her lap
The age of the infant is based on the age at commencement of travel
Unaccompanied
A service charge will be assessed for unaccompanied children on all flights.
Unaccompanied children, a child/minor under 15 years of age, not accompanied on the same flight and in the same compartment by a passenger at least 16 years of age or parent regardless of age.
Unaccompanied children under 5 years of age will not be accepted under any circumstances.
Unaccompanied children 5, 6 or 7 years of age will be accepted on a non-stop or through flights only, and must be accompanied by a parent or responsible adult until the child is boarded on the flight and the aircraft has departed the gate. The child must be met at the destination by another parent or responsible adult.
Unaccompanied children ages 5-7 are restricted on flights scheduled with a change from one aircraft to another type of aircraft before termination, but designated by a single flight number.
Unaccompanied children 5, 6, or 7 years of age will not be accepted on certain American flights operated in equipment not requiring a flight attendant. Contact American for specific information.
Unaccompanied children 8 through 14 years of age will be accepted for transportation on non-stop, through or connecting flights. Connecting flights must be through the following airports: CLT, DCA, DFW, JFK, LAX, LGA, MIA, ORD, PHL, PHX. Reservations must be confirmed to the destination. The child must be accompanied by a parent or responsible adult until the child has boarded the flight and the aircraft has departed the gate. The child must be met at the destination by another parent or responsible adult.
American does not accept unaccompanied children when their itinerary includes a connection to/from another airline, including codeshare and oneworld partners.
American will not accept reservations or provide transportation for unaccompanied children for any itinerary that includes the last online connecting flight of the day.
American may refuse to provide connection air transportation services at any origination city to an unaccompanied child holding reservations when there is a reasonable likelihood that the child will not make a flight connection, and therefore require overnight accommodations.
Please note our flight attendants are unable to continuously monitor an unaccompanied child during their flight.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:12 pm
#19
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Thanks for that. It's funny how complicated this one is. A question, with regard to the bolded above, is it perceived by most that that would, indeed, apply to a 15-year-old, traveling alone, but -not- requesting the service?
That is to say, does anyone else read:
(and the fact that a person having achieved 15 years is not otherwise mentioned)
As, in fact, meaning that a 15 year-old, traveling alone and not requesting UMNR service, is not, in fact, an unaccompanied child?
That is to say, does anyone else read:
Unaccompanied children, a child/minor under 15 years of age , ...
As, in fact, meaning that a 15 year-old, traveling alone and not requesting UMNR service, is not, in fact, an unaccompanied child?
Jul 26, 2016, 7:19 pm
#20
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I expect that he is not going to be able to get the last flight of the day. Whether you use UM services or not, he is a minor at age 15. AA doesn't want the responsibility of having him overnight. Even if you don't use UM service, the first thing that a parent will do if something untoward happens to a 15 year-old is sue AA for allowing a minor to go off on his/her own overnight, and rightfully so. At 15, a person is legally a minor.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:22 pm
#21
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Can you book on Orbitz, Expedia, etc. to get around this?
And I agree with the OP that it seems pretty clear that a 15 y/o can indeed travel on their own and thus are not subject to any of these restrictions.
And I agree with the OP that it seems pretty clear that a 15 y/o can indeed travel on their own and thus are not subject to any of these restrictions.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:31 pm
#22
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I expect that he is not going to be able to get the last flight of the day. Whether you use UM services or not, he is a minor at age 15. AA doesn't want the responsibility of having him overnight. Even if you don't use UM service, the first thing that a parent will do if something untoward happens to a 15 year-old is sue AA for allowing a minor to go off on his/her own overnight, and rightfully so. At 15, a person is legally a minor.
But I'm rather interested in this as an exercise in interpreting authentic frontier gibberish; do people read that portion of the CoC as allowing or disallowing a 15 year old to travel solo and book the last flight of the day-- with their being zero doubt that someone -under- 15 could not, and, I'd think, a person of 16 having no such restrictions? At least that's the way I read it.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:35 pm
#24
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Thanks for that. It's funny how complicated this one is. A question, with regard to the bolded above, is it perceived by most that that would, indeed, apply to a 15-year-old, traveling alone, but -not- requesting the service?
That is to say, does anyone else read:
(and the fact that a person having achieved 15 years is not otherwise mentioned)
As, in fact, meaning that a 15 year-old, traveling alone and not requesting UMNR service, is not, in fact, an unaccompanied child?
That is to say, does anyone else read:
(and the fact that a person having achieved 15 years is not otherwise mentioned)
As, in fact, meaning that a 15 year-old, traveling alone and not requesting UMNR service, is not, in fact, an unaccompanied child?
But regardless, it's still a pretty ridiculous presentation of the rules.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:38 pm
#25
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AA can emancipate minors?
I get the discussion. What I do NOT get is the argument that a 16 yo is apparently not a minor. Never really stated, but implicit in almost all of these discussions.
Last I heard, federally, and in most states, you are adult at 18 (but of course can't drink until 21...)
Of course, in the "nation" of AA - based on the CoC - perhaps one is adult at 16?
Last I heard, federally, and in most states, you are adult at 18 (but of course can't drink until 21...)
Of course, in the "nation" of AA - based on the CoC - perhaps one is adult at 16?
Jul 26, 2016, 7:40 pm
#26
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Posts: 44,586
No argument, it's sensible.
But I'm rather interested in this as an exercise in interpreting authentic frontier gibberish; do people read that portion of the CoC as allowing or disallowing a 15 year old to travel solo and book the last flight of the day-- with their being zero doubt that someone -under- 15 could not, and, I'd think, a person of 16 having no such restrictions? At least that's the way I read it.
But I'm rather interested in this as an exercise in interpreting authentic frontier gibberish; do people read that portion of the CoC as allowing or disallowing a 15 year old to travel solo and book the last flight of the day-- with their being zero doubt that someone -under- 15 could not, and, I'd think, a person of 16 having no such restrictions? At least that's the way I read it.
Until the child has reached his 16th birthday , booking must be made through reservations , rather than online
If a 15 year old is booked as an unaccompanied minor, then would not be allowed to travel on the last flight of the day due to the restrictions of the service
If a 15 year old is not booked as an unaccompanied minor, then the unaccompanied minor restrictions would not apply and should be able to book on any flight
This seems like a situation to call again and try with another agent
Another simple solution would be to use an airline that has no requirements to travel as an unaccompanied minor once at age 12
Jul 26, 2016, 7:44 pm
#27
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It's clear that for a 15-year-old, unaccompanied minor service is optional. I would just book it on a 3rd party website.
Jul 26, 2016, 7:46 pm
#29
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Yeah, I read the CoC language that way as well (after a few tries!). There's basically a hole that doesn't address a 15 year old passenger. So there's no reason to think s/he would be subject to those restrictions (if not using the UMNR service) based on that language (even if that's not particularly sensible).
But regardless, it's still a pretty ridiculous presentation of the rules.
But regardless, it's still a pretty ridiculous presentation of the rules.
Or, as suggested (and if one felt strongly about it for some reason) book through Expedia, etc., as my -thinking- is the booking would then be reviewed (if at all) by someone at AA who actually knows these rules intimately and then at least you have a far better chance of having got the correct answer, in essence.
Jul 26, 2016, 8:23 pm
#30
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OK, first person experience here. Well, my son, anyway.
We put him on a flight to summer camp as a15 year old, BDL to BWI.
They arrived around 8:30 on a Sunday night. At 9 the Airport Security called to advise my wife and I that my son was safe and with them, but when they go off shift at 10PM, thee are required by law to hand him over to DYFS, and he would have to be put into the system. Is there anyone we knew or could call. Nice kid, we would take him hone, but of course that would mean our jobs.
In the end he was picked up by the camp, but you cannot imagine the views we created in our minds about "being put into the DYFS system" and what it could take to get him out.
So one airport, one example, nothing more.
We put him on a flight to summer camp as a15 year old, BDL to BWI.
They arrived around 8:30 on a Sunday night. At 9 the Airport Security called to advise my wife and I that my son was safe and with them, but when they go off shift at 10PM, thee are required by law to hand him over to DYFS, and he would have to be put into the system. Is there anyone we knew or could call. Nice kid, we would take him hone, but of course that would mean our jobs.
In the end he was picked up by the camp, but you cannot imagine the views we created in our minds about "being put into the DYFS system" and what it could take to get him out.
So one airport, one example, nothing more.