Aug 25, 17, 10:38 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Involuntary (Carrier Imposed) Award Changes Questions
Please feel free to add to or correct the information herein.
NOTE: For voluntary award changes (changes you wish the airline will make), see All Voluntary Award Change: date, time, routing, co-terminal, cost, cancel, etc..
Occasionally, AA or a partner carrier may make a schedule change or flight cancellation that negatively affects an award. These changes can include significant flight reschedules (or cancellations) that affect minimum connection times, change departure times, eliminate the class of service you secured originally, etc.
AA's legal obligation ends at redepositing all the AAdvantage miles used and refunding all taxes and carrier imposed charges. But in actuality, AA will generally try to help in these cases. AA can:
1)!Move you and your companions to other flights operated by American Airlines, regardless of whether there is award availability or not, or whether it's the same routing or not. Usually an agent will do this by calling Revenue Management to request revenue seat release to award seats.
2) Have the AA Liaison contact the originally scheduled airline to request they release revenue seat(s) to awards on suitable flights. This generally requires 72 hours (three working days), excluding holidays, weekends, etc.
3) Redeposit your miles free of charge and refund fees and taxes you were charged.
Some agents are more knowledgeable and/or willing to assist you. In cases where they aren't, you can request speaking to a Supervisor, or hang up and call again so you can speak to another agent.
Below are the usual rules for voluntary award changes; though they generally apply, some rules may be waived in cases where you have had your award altered involuntarily.
Award changes, ordinary
NOTE: More extensive listing of terms and conditions are listed in oneworld and other airline Awards Rules, Information 2015 on
Also see: AA oneworld and Other Airline ("Partner") Award information, rules (2015 on) (link).
As long as origin and destination (but read on for exceptions such as first / last segment) remain the same, change / award redeposit fees are usually waived for awards under certain circumstances when date, connection, routing or carrier changes are made - as long as you do not try to change between all AA oneworld awards and non-oneworld partner airlines.
E.g. an all AA award such as SEA-HNL-SYD using AS can not be changed to use JL without requiring award redeposit.
Awards must be used within one year of booking; for travel beyond that, the award miles will have to be redeposited and new awards secured.
Award miles reinstatement: Redeposit fees are waived for Executive Platinum members. See here for more information on award miles reinstatement.
"Upgrading" class of service by using miles requires redepositing the Old award and issuing a new one for the higher class if service. AA will waive the deposit fee on the redeposited award, and will not charge for this. (However, taxes may differ, such as going from the discounted U.K. Air Passenger Duty to the full APD if upgrading from Y / PE to J; if there are higher taxes abd fees imposed by the new fare, the passenger is charged for those.)
Co-terminals: For award purposes, there are no co-terminals; changing co-terminal airports (MIA and FLL, PBI; JFK, LGA, EWR etc.) will incur a $150 change fee. See this thread for detail on award miles redeposit.
An award using AS, FJ, HA or TN to South Pacific can not be changed to AA or QF without requiring award redeposit (or vice versa).
Dropping segments: Awards made on AA or / and "All Partner" carriers will allow changes mentioned above without requiring redeposit fees. Instances of dropping an origin segment can be allowed, or a final segment - as long as doing so does not change the destination zone (or sub-zone, in the case of intra-North America awards); changing the mileage (miles required) of the award claimed or the number of awards claimed.
Segments can be dropped as long as doing so does not change the destination zone (or sub-zone, in the case of intra-North America awards). If you are refused, refer agents to the in-house memo/advisory dated 02/03/11 entitled "Dropping OWFA segments." (guv1976)
As JonNYC posted:
This document was current as of December 2014:
For permitted changes and fees, see this post in the airline partner award thread.
See TravelingBetter.com here and illustrations here.
If the award is AA and oneworld, changes may be made as long as the main / governing /Most Significant carrier makes an unconstructed fare on the award routing and the governing fare's carrier is not changed to one not offering such a fare.
Close-in booking fee: Changes made to bring travel to under 21 days from award issue will incur close-in booking fees of $75.
Schedule changes: On international awards, schedule changes of two hours or longer, or those breaking connections by bringing them below MCT / minimum connection times, flight cancellations, generally may be cancelled and redeposited without fees, or engender greater flexibility in changes. With AA awards, it is possible award seating may be opened when there is none; with partners, AA can appeal to the Liaison to the partner to open seating in these cases (the partner airline may or may not grant the exception requested). Equipment change constitutes a schedule change and you will be able to get the fee waived pre this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
Partner changes: If the award includes non-oneworld partners such as AS, EY, FJ or TN, or a oneworld carrier award is changed to include a non-oneworld carrier, significant fees will be incurred ($150).
If Maximum Permitted Miles (usually 125% of the most direct available routing) for an award are exceeded, two awards may be charged
or
MSC fare requirements: The most significant or prevailing carrier, usually the one with the transoceanic sector, must offer an unconstructed fare between desired origin and destination; if a fare would require "married segments", two awards may be required.
Changes that require different award type -
Changes to the itinerary which involve different AAdvantage award(s) than originally ticketed require a reinstatement of the original award ticket, payment of the applicable award reinstatement charge (see below), and a new award ticket issued (waived for AAdvantage Executive Platinum members using miles from their account).
Changes to your outbound travel date, resulting in a departure within 21 days -
Close-in booking fee: A $75 USD award processing charge will apply for a confirmed change to the date on an AAdvantage MileSAAver and AAnytime award ticket if the change results in a new outbound travel date that is within 21 days of the original booking date (waived for AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Platinum and Gold members using miles from their account).
Contact AAdvantage Reservations to change your itinerary, pay the applicable charge and have your ticket reissued prior to travel.
Canceling Awards / Reinstating Award Tickets
(Waived for AAdvantage Executive Platinum members using miles from their account)
Award class changes: MileSAAver to AAnytime changes generally incur no fees; conversely, AAnytime to MileSAAver awards generally will.
Award cabin class "upgrades" (e.g. Y to J): If the change made is an increase of miles to another cabin class, fees are not normally charged (but some government required fees such as UK Air Passenger Duty, airport passenger facility fees, etc. may change).
Redepositing awards incurs a fee of $150 other than for Executive Platinum members redepositing to their accounts. If two or more awards are being redeposited to the same account at the same time, the fees are $150 for the first award, $25 for every award thereafter. Note the awards do not have to share the same PNR, though some less knowledgeable agents will insist so.
Please see: State of the award reinstatement fee (Nov 2015 - clarifying)
FAQ: Cancel award ticket / cancellation (time frame, taxes, etc.) (merged threads)
Link to archive of older posts on this topic
Involuntary Award Changes / What To Do (merged threads)
Oct 27, 15, 6:48 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 66
Involuntary Award Changes / What To Do (merged threads)
In the past when we have made award reservations and then AA has a schedule change, they have let us make a change due to their change. This just happened and they will not cooperate. Were booked to fly AUS-LAX-LAH early am and they changed first leg to afternoon which connected late in the day. I tried to get them to fly us to LAX a day prior and connect us with our original flight to LIH at 9am. Just received the email about the change today. Agent just said the AUS-LAX flight went away and then reappeared within 24 hours and now no availability which I find impossible to believe. Is this possible??
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 25, 17 at 10:13 pm Reason: Restore original post title
Oct 27, 15, 7:51 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,402
So you were willing to either fly to LAX a day early to connect to your original LIH flight, or else get take your (restored) original LAX flight? Have you tried "hang up and call again"?
Oct 27, 15, 8:57 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Gold, AA Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 383
Definitely HUACA. The agent can request that award space be opened in a case like this.
Yesterday I received a schedule change notification on a PNH-HKG-YYZ-ORD award I had booked in J (HKG-YYZ on CX metal). Ticketed flight on the last leg was canceled and the next one would've resulted in arrival >4 hours after originally planned which was a no-go. Couldn't move to an earlier flight because we already had a forced overnight in YYZ.
I knew before calling that there was no award J inventory on any CX flight to a NA gateway that day nor on any AA transpacific flight either, so I expected I'd have to fight to get J award space opened HKG-DFW. Instead, no fight at all - the agent simply offered it as an option, put me on hold for a few minutes to get everything solved, then came back to confirm. Really well handled, and exactly the resolution I expected. (Not that I'm happy about losing the CX flight, but there's a very good chance of switching to the HKG-ORD nonstop anyway once I get close enough to departure!)
Yesterday I received a schedule change notification on a PNH-HKG-YYZ-ORD award I had booked in J (HKG-YYZ on CX metal). Ticketed flight on the last leg was canceled and the next one would've resulted in arrival >4 hours after originally planned which was a no-go. Couldn't move to an earlier flight because we already had a forced overnight in YYZ.
I knew before calling that there was no award J inventory on any CX flight to a NA gateway that day nor on any AA transpacific flight either, so I expected I'd have to fight to get J award space opened HKG-DFW. Instead, no fight at all - the agent simply offered it as an option, put me on hold for a few minutes to get everything solved, then came back to confirm. Really well handled, and exactly the resolution I expected. (Not that I'm happy about losing the CX flight, but there's a very good chance of switching to the HKG-ORD nonstop anyway once I get close enough to departure!)
Oct 27, 15, 9:28 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,541
HUACA = hang up and call again
The agent is saying 'no availability' which means almost certainly that they are trying to find award seats for you. But they shouldn't have to....Since this is their change, the agent can ask yield management to open awards on the flight you want.
Have flight numbers and times when you HUACA.
GL
report back
Oct 28, 15, 2:12 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,541
2. Did you ask for a supervisor?
3. When you said "your policy is to try and open award space when AA makes a schedule change" what did they say?
Be polite but firm. These agents are under stress and are likely to help those that are nice....
Oct 28, 15, 6:20 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 66
I did ask for a supervisor and was told that no one else would have a different answer. She kept saying that schedule changes happen, even deleting and putting back a flight within a 24 hr window which I still do not believe. She kept saying that there were no award tickets available to get us to LAX a day earlier to connect with our original LAX-LIH flight. So frustrating!!! I have not yet tried to call a third time.
Oct 29, 15, 12:36 am
#8
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,541
when I am told that I simply say "Thats fine- I'l discuss it with the supervisor" I will also. at the beginning of the call. get their name. And use it. If they flat out refuse a transfer ask "wait. _____ are you refusing to let me speak to a supervisor? I want to make sure there is no misunderstanding"
And perhaps you dont understand- the agent is insisting 'there is no award space'. This is correct. What they should do is OPEN AWARD SPACE FOR YOU. They cant do it. a supervisor can.
And perhaps you dont understand- the agent is insisting 'there is no award space'. This is correct. What they should do is OPEN AWARD SPACE FOR YOU. They cant do it. a supervisor can.
Jul 12, 16, 11:23 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,900
so mad @ AA (award flight changes)
I was having some trouble with an award ticket - LAX-SFO-HND-HKG-CMB
Now the HND-HKG segment was on the last CX747 flight, ever. Grabbed seat 1A + 1K.
I got an email from these people: QRD DFW [email protected]
To call them Urgently.
AA automatically booked me on SFO-HKG, kicking my wife and I off the HND-HKG segment.
then I ask to be put back on the segment and theres no more availability.
I know its miles, not real currency, but i literally planned over a year for this.
I am so mad. Whats my next attack here? This has been an ongoing saga with this award ticket.
Now the HND-HKG segment was on the last CX747 flight, ever. Grabbed seat 1A + 1K.
I got an email from these people: QRD DFW [email protected]
To call them Urgently.
AA automatically booked me on SFO-HKG, kicking my wife and I off the HND-HKG segment.
then I ask to be put back on the segment and theres no more availability.
I know its miles, not real currency, but i literally planned over a year for this.
I am so mad. Whats my next attack here? This has been an ongoing saga with this award ticket.
Jul 12, 16, 11:28 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
Specific equipment is never guaranteed. At best, if you were moved to a lower class of service you can ask to be put back into the original class on another flight or get a refund of the difference. Otherwise, you can refund the whole trip (assuming there was a change to your arrival time).
Jul 12, 16, 11:35 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Platinum, GE
Posts: 2,954
Really don't want to sound rude - I sympathise with you - but if I were a CX DM unable to get revenue seats on this flight, I would be pretty pissed to learn that two of these prestigious nine seats were snatched by what they call 'grAAbers' so long ago. Presumably CX bumped you both for their own elites, again, rude but they would care less about you but rather want to please their own DMs (especially if there are some high-spending enthusiast avgeek-DMs, which I know there are a few.) They know they have some avgeek/'crazy' elites that's why they publicised this final flight to be ceremonial (in CX style, I totally won't be surprised if they did nothing for this, so, good that they are actually planning on doing something special.) Understandably everyone wants to fly this flight. Maybe try the day before? But I am a victim myself, I wanted to get on these flights before I returned to the states in late sept (now in HKG) but they have taken away ALL award inventory for the entire September for quite a while already.
Are you EXP? Do you fly a lot on Cathay paid? If that's the case maybe you might want to write to Marco Polo but again very very unlikely that this will yield anything.
Are you EXP? Do you fly a lot on Cathay paid? If that's the case maybe you might want to write to Marco Polo but again very very unlikely that this will yield anything.
Jul 12, 16, 12:21 pm
#14
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ROC/NYC/MSP/LAX/HKG/SIN
Posts: 3,212
Really don't want to sound rude - I sympathise with you - but if I were a CX DM unable to get revenue seats on this flight, I would be pretty pissed to learn that two of these prestigious nine seats were snatched by what they call 'grAAbers' so long ago. Presumably CX bumped you both for their own elites, again, rude but they would care less about you but rather want to please their own DMs (especially if there are some high-spending enthusiast avgeek-DMs, which I know there are a few.) They know they have some avgeek/'crazy' elites that's why they publicised this final flight to be ceremonial (in CX style, I totally won't be surprised if they did nothing for this, so, good that they are actually planning on doing something special.) Understandably everyone wants to fly this flight. Maybe try the day before? But I am a victim myself, I wanted to get on these flights before I returned to the states in late sept (now in HKG) but they have taken away ALL award inventory for the entire September for quite a while already.
Are you EXP? Do you fly a lot on Cathay paid? If that's the case maybe you might want to write to Marco Polo but again very very unlikely that this will yield anything.
Are you EXP? Do you fly a lot on Cathay paid? If that's the case maybe you might want to write to Marco Polo but again very very unlikely that this will yield anything.
OP - Unfortunately when management decides to get on your way, even if you are in revenue ticket, you are still not binding to the legal. I can get the one-way/RT revenue ticket and still get bumped. Your best resort is to tell them you actually have to stop over at HND. Force the SFO-HND back in, and tell them to figure that out. They did it possibly thinking you are in transit and forcefully took you out.
Too late - My parents had a chance to try out the 1A/1K, yet I didn't get to try that out.
Last edited by PaulInTheSky; Jul 12, 16 at 12:45 pm
Jul 12, 16, 12:44 pm
#15
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,900
That can technically mean executives getting on this flight. Only 4D and 3K are open now.
OP - Unfortunately when management decides to get on your way, even if you are in revenue ticket, you are still not binding to the legal. I can get the one-way/RT revenue ticket and still get bumped. Your best resort is to tell them you actually have to stop over at HND. Force the SFO-HND back in, and tell them to figure that out. They did it possibly thinking you are in transit and forcefully took you out.
Looking at the fare inventory they are definitely certain it is going to sell.
OP - Unfortunately when management decides to get on your way, even if you are in revenue ticket, you are still not binding to the legal. I can get the one-way/RT revenue ticket and still get bumped. Your best resort is to tell them you actually have to stop over at HND. Force the SFO-HND back in, and tell them to figure that out. They did it possibly thinking you are in transit and forcefully took you out.
Looking at the fare inventory they are definitely certain it is going to sell.
Here is where i am now...I am back in the LAX-SFO-HND segment.
Theyre working with CX to get this done, but I doubt anything will happen. I lost my 1A and 1K seats, which is really awful.
Now I need to repay the new award chart miles as well, which really makes me upset.
