eponymous_coward

That's kind of the point. AA is clearly not particularly interested in shoveling a bunch of SWUs and RDMs towards the type of customer epitomized on FT: the person who turns $2-3,000 of spend on bottom-barrel cheap coach flights (maybe adding in a bunch of stops in AA hubs to maximize RDM) into a bunch of business class TATL/TPAC flights and premium class redemptions.

They're going to be perfectly willing to SELL cheap coach all day long, but incentivize it as anything other than cheap coach from point A to point B? Not so much.

They're even going to be willing to sell cheap business class at 2-3x cheapest coach prices when they have to (fare wars or low demand), as we've seen the past few months, but the US airlines are moving away from a model where premium class prices don't match market demand ("Why are you selling that lemonade for a million dollars?" "I only have to sell one glass!"), and they have to give away impaired premium inventory as award space, to one where they do a better job of setting market clearing prices for their premium inventory.

And yeah, in that model, where everyone is competing on price as opposed to "hey, fly our lousy airline more in cheap coach so you can occasionally get Krug and upgrades", convenience, service, amenities, customer experience, and how reliable the airline is DO matter more. So AA had better get with the program. Better make the planes run on time. Better have interiors that don't look 25 years old (because they really ARE from the early 90's). Better figure out that problem they have where nobody has a clue what's going on with the plane, and thus can't deliver accurate information real-time to customers. And so on.

Personally? The RDMs and upgrades are nice, but I'd rather fly a stingy airline that delivers what I bought and gets me there on time (and keeps me up to date/deals well with service delivery problems) than an airline that shovels miles at me but has problems with the actual flying I need to do. I think AA has problems being that first airline at the moment. DL's WAY ahead of them.

JDiver

Here's the deal: there are two threads.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for those seeking elucidation of the changes and checking the information we know.

This thread, entitled http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for reaction, discussion, venting, etc. so we can keep the JUST THE FACTS thread clear of the many posts about our feelings about these changes.

What neither thread is: opportunity to blast other posters. See FT Rule 12, "Abusive Or Disruptive Behavior Or Content" (link) for further guidance. Please refrain from discussing other posters or posts;
"If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated."

As well, try to stay on topic - this thread is about the June 6 announced changes to the AAdvantage program, not other topics best discussed elsewhere.

Thank you.

/Moderator

DL2SXM

sure, if you like delayed and cancelled flights surrounded by horrible customer service, then UA is your answer. Then again, the above just described AA to a T!

Jacobin777

UA and DL came out of BK so I'm not surprised about them being profitable. WN had fuel hedges and US was lucky to have costs down (given the US Airways East and US Airways West pilot unions couldn't get along).

Can't remember about the other carriers.

Regardless, your point about carriers being profitable with oil @$100 does stand mostly true.^

AAExecPlatFlier

Isn't these $200 vouchers what ultimately got Lucky banned from UA when he would keep submitting the same vouchers?

Airrage

I completely agree with you. From where I sit, you nailed it.

Global321

Never said it had to be full fare. But "discount" and "refundable" are generally not closely associated. For example, if you say you bought a discounted economy class fare, I think it is safe to say most people would not think it is refundable.

pbd456

i thought he was banned for using one 200 voucher at the same time for multiple reservations using multiple broswers/computers.

Global321

Actually, it was when he bragged about getting $10,000 worth for complaining about everything under the sun on UA flights to a reporter. (Source: Rolling Stone) He is NOT banned from UA. Just banned from UA's Mileage Plus.

cmd320

United is actually not the horrible option it was 3 years ago. Things have significantly improved and I would place it's CS somewhere in between DL and AA. There are a few things they do better than both DL and AA. At the end of the day, now that all the FFPs are equally useless, there's really no reason to choose an airline based on the rewards.

ysolde

And this is where my tortured love affair with AA may end for me. Most of our international travel is to Europe. In that market, *A has it all over OW.

AAFlyerSPGStayer

Reminder: equally useless for you, not necessarily for everyone.

I wish they had made these changes earlier. I would have a lot more miles in my account if they had! For example, I just booked a ticket with a fare of $615 and a distance of 1,100 miles. As a Platinum under the old system, I will earn 3,250 currency miles. Under the new system, I would have earned 4920 currency miles! And now, if I make EP, I will be towards the top of the upgrade list when I use those miles for a leisure trip or purchase a deep discount fare myself.

For customers like me, the AA program was at a competitive disadvantage versus UA and DL before these changes. If I was a customer somewhere like Chicago, New York, or LA, I might have switched in response.

Superguy

True, but technically, anything below a Y fare is considered discount. Before B was repurposed, it was sort of a limbo fare - considered full fare for EQM purposes and flexibility, but still discounted compared to a Y fare.

Superguy

My question is - how much of that stereotype is actually based on reality? We all know a few people who've done it, but I think the reality is much different. Most of us here are business travelers. Some are fortunate enough to travel a lot on their own dime leisurely. And some completely game the system.

The argument's been made that FTers are a small subset of the elite pool (with some Kettles in the mix of course). I agree with that. And just as people say that FT is a small but vocal minority, I also think that the "gamers" are a small, vocal minority of that group. Thus we're looking at a rather insignificant number of gamers.

I think it would be foolish to redo an FFP just to counteract that small group. When you factor in the cost of developing the program in materials and labor, and also the risks of burning the customers you want to keep with those changes, I don't think the gamers warrant that level of attention.

I think something bigger's afoot, and it's more due to the oligopoly that the airlines don't think they need to compete on FFPs as much because in reality, where are you going to go? If you fly international, you're stuck with the big 3. Domestically you have a few more options, but in reality their programs aren't much different either and have been revenue based for much longer. So I think it comes down to feeling they don't need to incentivize travel because they're going to get it anyway.

If it was really about just eliminating the cheap elite, that could have been taken care of a long time ago and it hasn't. I think the cheap elite's just a straw man to cover for the lack of competition in the market.

Superguy

I don't think there was ever any argument that there are people who benefit from this change. The consensus seems to focus on people who fly on expensive short flights.

Long haul loses out and even flying premium doesn't help much there due to the earning caps and such. Just comparing my last international trip booked in D/P, I would have gotten at least 10k fewer miles under the new program.

I think the "rewarding our best customers" is just a smoke screen for an overall gutting of the program - from flying at least. I'm sure they'll continue to give out miles from CCs like candy though.