View Poll Results: The AAdvantage changes announced 6 Jun 2016 will
incentivize me to fly AA more, as I benefit overall
27
3.55%
cause me to buy premium over discount AA fares
26
3.42%
not impact my travel on AA in the balance
128
16.82%
make me choose AA or a competitor, depending on itinerary
181
23.78%
make me become an independent agent
221
29.04%
cause me to join another airline's FF program
178
23.39%
Voters: 761. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: JDiver
AAdvantage Changes Announced 6 Jun 2016 - REACTION, DISCUSSION
This thread is dedicated to "REACTION, DISCUSSION" of the changes announced June 6, 2016.
For "JUST THE FACTS", please use JUST THE FACTS: EQD, status tier, upgrade changes as of 6 Jun 2016
Link to AAdvantage Program Updates page on aa.com.
Link to Gary Leff's "View from the Wing" blog article on these changes.
Link to Ben "Lucky" Schlappig's take in "One Mile at a Time" on View From the Boarding Area
Summary of changes:
aa.com: Unknown but intended: aa.com updated to show EQM, EQD and RDM/AW for your convenience when booking and in your account for keeping informed about your accruals.
Change to earning Award / Redeemable Miles to revenue based begins (see FT thread)
Bonus award miles "More Miles" for premium cabin discontinued
For travel beginning August 1, 2016
Earn award miles based on your ticket price and elite status on American-marketed flights.
You earn miles on the base fare plus carrier-imposed fees minus government-imposed taxes and fees. The more you spend (and the higher your elite status level) the more you’ll earn.
On most flights marketed by partner airlines, you'll earn award miles based on a percentage of the flight distance and the fare class of your ticket. Rates will be available by July 15.
NOTE: this also pertains to "special fares", such as those purchased through AA Vacations. (not AA language)
You earn miles on the base fare plus carrier-imposed fees minus government-imposed taxes and fees. The more you spend (and the higher your elite status level) the more you’ll earn.
- AAdvantage® member – 5 miles for every U.S. dollar
- Gold member – 7 miles for every U.S. dollar (40% bonus)
- Platinum member – 8 miles for every U.S. dollar (60% bonus)
- Platinum Pro - 9 miles for every U.S. dollar
- Executive Platinum member – 11 miles for every U.S. dollar (120% bonus)
NOTE: this also pertains to "special fares", such as those purchased through AA Vacations. (not AA language)
1 Jan 2017:
Status earning to have EQM/EQS criteria AND "EQD" revenue spend requirement
In addition to the (same as 2016) required EQM or EQS, to earn status one will have to also earn "Elite Qualifying Dollars" / "EQD" spend credit as follows (during the calendar year):
"EQDs will be awarded based on:
Ticket price (base fare plus carrier-imposed fees, excluding any government-imposed taxes and fees) on American-marketed flights
EQD calculations will not include change fees and similar (premium seats, baggage, etc.) charges.
Flights marketed by oneworld® carriers and Alaska Airlines will earn EQDs based on a percentage of the flight distance and the fare class purchased (as may "special fares" - not AA language)
NOTE: EQD offset may be earned by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red and Silver cards (added language not from AA)
With the addition of EQDs, we’ll remove the rule that 4 segments must be traveled on American or American Eagle during the qualifying year to receive elite status."
Ticket price (base fare plus carrier-imposed fees, excluding any government-imposed taxes and fees) on American-marketed flights
EQD calculations will not include change fees and similar (premium seats, baggage, etc.) charges.
Q. Do checked bag fees, seat purchases, 500-mile upgrades or other products/service fees count toward earning award miles and EQDs?
No, only the base fare paid for your ticket including any carrier-imposed fees will count toward earning award miles and EQDs. Fees for other products or services will not be awarded miles or EQDs, including but not limited to the following: checked baggage fees, Admirals Club® memberships, Wi-Fi passes, in-flight food and beverage purchases, in-flight entertainment, unaccompanied minor fees, pet travel fees, 500-mile upgrades, mileage upgrade cash co-payments, Mileage Multiplier, BuyMiles, GiftMiles, ShareMiles or other mileage purchases, ticket change fees, ticketing fees, same-day confirmed flight change or standby fees and service charges. (Thanks to ty97.)
No, only the base fare paid for your ticket including any carrier-imposed fees will count toward earning award miles and EQDs. Fees for other products or services will not be awarded miles or EQDs, including but not limited to the following: checked baggage fees, Admirals Club® memberships, Wi-Fi passes, in-flight food and beverage purchases, in-flight entertainment, unaccompanied minor fees, pet travel fees, 500-mile upgrades, mileage upgrade cash co-payments, Mileage Multiplier, BuyMiles, GiftMiles, ShareMiles or other mileage purchases, ticket change fees, ticketing fees, same-day confirmed flight change or standby fees and service charges. (Thanks to ty97.)
NOTE: EQD offset may be earned by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red and Silver cards (added language not from AA)
With the addition of EQDs, we’ll remove the rule that 4 segments must be traveled on American or American Eagle during the qualifying year to receive elite status."
- Gold - $3,000
- Platinum - $6,000
- Platinum Pro - $9,000 (beginning 1/1/17)
- Executive Platinum - $12,000
NOTE: Concierge Key is treated as a higher status tier than Executive Platinum for upgrade Priority, but is not otherwise an AAdvantage status tier.
Change from three status tiers to four - new 75K "Platinum Pro" added
"In 2017 you can start earning toward a new level, Platinum Pro, with benefits like:
- Complimentary upgrades on flights in 500-mile upgrade markets
- Earn 9 award miles/U.S. dollar (80% bonus)
- 2 free checked bags
- oneworld® Sapphire status
- 72 hour upgrade window
February 2017
Introduction of highly restricted AA Basic Economy fares. FT link.
These will accrue 0.5 EQM, 0.5 EQS, will not permit rollaboard size / overhead baggage (only one personal item) unless you have status, no upgrades permitted, etc.
"Late" 2017:
Change to upgrade priority to EQD-based priority
"The way your upgrade request is prioritized will change later in 2017. You’ll be listed according to your elite status level followed by the number of EQDs earned in the last 12 months."
Executive Platinums able to upgrade MC / coach award flight (On flights 500 mile upgrades are usable, courtesy upgrades; priority within EP by last 12 month EQD spend).
"Starting later in 2017, Executive Platinum members can use their complimentary 500-mile upgrade benefits on AAdvantage® award tickets for travel on American from Main Cabin to the next class."
Peripheral issues:
AA Vacations: AA Vacations packages (like partner airline tickets) will earn EQD, EQM, and RDM/AW based on the distance flown as determined by the fare class purchased. This is in accordance with the "Special Fares" section of the new EQD earnings pages, and confirmed here
EQD requirements will apply to non-US residents as well as US as currently exists
EQD requirements can be partially offset by spend on Barclaycard AAdvantage Aviator Red or Silver cards.
Partners (AS and oneworld): accrual of EQM as reflected on charts on aa.com; EQD credit to be announced (15 Jul 2016)
Status: AA has no current plans to add "Lifetime Platinum Pro" status.
Resources:
GLOSSARY:
EQD: Elite Qualifying Dollars (base fare + carrier imposed fees, - government imposed taxes and fees)
EQM: Elite Qualifying Miles (accrual depends on fare basis, airline and miles flown)
EQS: Elite Qualifying Segments (discrete qualifying segment credited by AA)
Platinum Pro: new tier beginning 1/1/17 requiring $9,000 EQD and 75,000 EQM or 90 EQS in one calendar year
For links to new threads about these and other recent changes affecting AA flyers, see below.
Link to AAdvantage Program Updates page on aa.com.
Link to Gary Leff's "View from the Wing" blog article on these changes.
Link to Ben "Lucky" Schlappig's take in "One Mile at a Time" on View From the Boarding Area
Link to Andy's take on the Award Miles earning changes on View From the Boarding Area.
Links to useful threads:
GUIDE: Earning EQD / Elite Qualifying Dollars on AA and partner airlines (2017 on)
GUIDE: Earning AA Elite Qualifying Miles / EQM on AA, oneworld, partner airlines 2017
GUIDE: Earning AA Award / Redeemable Miles / RDM on AA, partners 1 Aug 2016
HELP DESK: Elite Qualifying EQD, EQM & Award / RDM Calculations & Planning 2017
AAdvantage® earning estimates - FAQ (aa.com)
(aa.com "AAdvantage program updates" - link)
Link to FT thread: What are AA Platinum Pro Benefits? Are they worth it? (master thread)
Link to FT thread: oneworld not requiring connecting protection or interline baggage 1 Jun 2016
Link to ARCHIVE: "Speculation about upcoming changes tba 6 Jun 2016"
Updated 6 Jan 2012 - JDiver
REACTION, DISCUSSION: EQD, status tier, upgrade changes as of 6 Jun 2016
#871
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,386
They're going to be perfectly willing to SELL cheap coach all day long, but incentivize it as anything other than cheap coach from point A to point B? Not so much.
They're even going to be willing to sell cheap business class at 2-3x cheapest coach prices when they have to (fare wars or low demand), as we've seen the past few months, but the US airlines are moving away from a model where premium class prices don't match market demand ("Why are you selling that lemonade for a million dollars?" "I only have to sell one glass!"), and they have to give away impaired premium inventory as award space, to one where they do a better job of setting market clearing prices for their premium inventory.
And yeah, in that model, where everyone is competing on price as opposed to "hey, fly our lousy airline more in cheap coach so you can occasionally get Krug and upgrades", convenience, service, amenities, customer experience, and how reliable the airline is DO matter more. So AA had better get with the program. Better make the planes run on time. Better have interiors that don't look 25 years old (because they really ARE from the early 90's). Better figure out that problem they have where nobody has a clue what's going on with the plane, and thus can't deliver accurate information real-time to customers. And so on.
Personally? The RDMs and upgrades are nice, but I'd rather fly a stingy airline that delivers what I bought and gets me there on time (and keeps me up to date/deals well with service delivery problems) than an airline that shovels miles at me but has problems with the actual flying I need to do. I think AA has problems being that first airline at the moment. DL's WAY ahead of them.
#872
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Here's the deal: there are two threads.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for those seeking elucidation of the changes and checking the information we know.
This thread, entitled http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for reaction, discussion, venting, etc. so we can keep the JUST THE FACTS thread clear of the many posts about our feelings about these changes.
What neither thread is: opportunity to blast other posters. See FT Rule 12, "Abusive Or Disruptive Behavior Or Content" (link) for further guidance. Please refrain from discussing other posters or posts;
"If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated."
As well, try to stay on topic - this thread is about the June 6 announced changes to the AAdvantage program, not other topics best discussed elsewhere.
Thank you.
/Moderator
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for those seeking elucidation of the changes and checking the information we know.
This thread, entitled http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...un-2016-a.html for reaction, discussion, venting, etc. so we can keep the JUST THE FACTS thread clear of the many posts about our feelings about these changes.
What neither thread is: opportunity to blast other posters. See FT Rule 12, "Abusive Or Disruptive Behavior Or Content" (link) for further guidance. Please refrain from discussing other posters or posts;
"If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated."
As well, try to stay on topic - this thread is about the June 6 announced changes to the AAdvantage program, not other topics best discussed elsewhere.
Thank you.
/Moderator
#873
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Delta skymiles DM + 1MM
Posts: 8,144
I've flown almost entirely on AA & OW flights since 1990. Now >3.2MM miles. While I've been EXP for 9 years now, I won't make it this year, not even close, as my NGO has ramped down foreign travel.
I foolishly assumed I could always fall back to LTP status, but now AA is going to devalued that too, as well as everything else in Aadvantage.
THANKS AA!
(since I'm near SFO, UA is finally starting to look like a better option)
I foolishly assumed I could always fall back to LTP status, but now AA is going to devalued that too, as well as everything else in Aadvantage.
THANKS AA!
(since I'm near SFO, UA is finally starting to look like a better option)
#874
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Can't remember about the other carriers.
Regardless, your point about carriers being profitable with oil @$100 does stand mostly true.^
#875
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 2,203
I've seen it.... during the good ole days at United with mileage runs. Heck, back then, to get on Capt. Denny Flanagan's inaugural FlyerTalk 1 flight, I did JFK-IAD-RIC-ORD-SFO-JFK in 24hrs for $200. I threw in RPUs(CRs) on ORD-SFO and SFO-JFK(ps) to boot...
We also used to get $200 vouchers whenever we found anything broken, like a light or audio plug. CFO declared us "over-entitled" and that was the beginning of the end of that...
We also used to get $200 vouchers whenever we found anything broken, like a light or audio plug. CFO declared us "over-entitled" and that was the beginning of the end of that...
Isn't these $200 vouchers what ultimately got Lucky banned from UA when he would keep submitting the same vouchers?
#876
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Programs: AAdvantage - PLT Pro, United Premier PLT, HHonors - Diamond, National - Ex. Elite
Posts: 31
(Bolding mine.) You raise very good points, but an important missing part of this is that switching to revenue-based earning across the board effectively penalizes business travelers whose employers aren't willing to purchase higher fares. If I work for company A and you work for company B, and my company is willing to buy me full-fare tickets and yours is only willing to buy you the lowest available restricted fare, how is fair to us -- the people whose butts are in the seats -- to give me more perks than you if we both fly the exact same amount? I just don't see it, especially in a world where each of our employers is already receiving points or perks for buying our tickets in the first place.
I think in the long run this system is going to cause exactly the issue you raised, at least among biz travelers who pay attention to loyalty programs. Those whose employers aren't willing to buy unrestricted fares will become less satisfied and less willing to travel as often. IMO this will have the overall effect of decreasing business travel in the long run (because let's not kid ourselves that many employees will successfully lobby their employers to buy higher fares so they can earn more miles). Framing this change as "giving our best customers access to our most exclusive benefits" is thinly veiled spin, when what's actually going on is that benefits are being restricted to those who spend more, and in many (if not most?) cases the people doing the big spending are not the same people receiving those benefits.
I think in the long run this system is going to cause exactly the issue you raised, at least among biz travelers who pay attention to loyalty programs. Those whose employers aren't willing to buy unrestricted fares will become less satisfied and less willing to travel as often. IMO this will have the overall effect of decreasing business travel in the long run (because let's not kid ourselves that many employees will successfully lobby their employers to buy higher fares so they can earn more miles). Framing this change as "giving our best customers access to our most exclusive benefits" is thinly veiled spin, when what's actually going on is that benefits are being restricted to those who spend more, and in many (if not most?) cases the people doing the big spending are not the same people receiving those benefits.
#877
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Never said it had to be full fare. But "discount" and "refundable" are generally not closely associated. For example, if you say you bought a discounted economy class fare, I think it is safe to say most people would not think it is refundable.
#878
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
#879
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Actually, it was when he bragged about getting $10,000 worth for complaining about everything under the sun on UA flights to a reporter. (Source: Rolling Stone) He is NOT banned from UA. Just banned from UA's Mileage Plus.
#880
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
United is actually not the horrible option it was 3 years ago. Things have significantly improved and I would place it's CS somewhere in between DL and AA. There are a few things they do better than both DL and AA. At the end of the day, now that all the FFPs are equally useless, there's really no reason to choose an airline based on the rewards.
#881
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,103
To Europe? I'm not sure I'd take BA/IB/AB/S7 clearly over LH/OS/LX/LO/SN or AF/KL/AZ.
To Africa? Please.
To Asia? This is a better matchup, but CA/CX/JL vs. NH/OZ/SQ doesn't strike me as a case where *A is totally overmatched. Even KE and all the Chinese airlines isn't THAT bad for choices of options.
To South America? OK, this is a pretty clear one with LATAM, though Copa/Avianca aren't terrible.
To Australia? Well, obviously QF is pretty good, but *A has NZ and if you're DL, you get VA...
What are you driving at?
To Africa? Please.
To Asia? This is a better matchup, but CA/CX/JL vs. NH/OZ/SQ doesn't strike me as a case where *A is totally overmatched. Even KE and all the Chinese airlines isn't THAT bad for choices of options.
To South America? OK, this is a pretty clear one with LATAM, though Copa/Avianca aren't terrible.
To Australia? Well, obviously QF is pretty good, but *A has NZ and if you're DL, you get VA...
What are you driving at?
#882
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: AA Plat, SPG Ambassador
Posts: 5
United is actually not the horrible option it was 3 years ago. Things have significantly improved and I would place it's CS somewhere in between DL and AA. There are a few things they do better than both DL and AA. At the end of the day, now that all the FFPs are equally useless, there's really no reason to choose an airline based on the rewards.
I wish they had made these changes earlier. I would have a lot more miles in my account if they had! For example, I just booked a ticket with a fare of $615 and a distance of 1,100 miles. As a Platinum under the old system, I will earn 3,250 currency miles. Under the new system, I would have earned 4920 currency miles! And now, if I make EP, I will be towards the top of the upgrade list when I use those miles for a leisure trip or purchase a deep discount fare myself.
For customers like me, the AA program was at a competitive disadvantage versus UA and DL before these changes. If I was a customer somewhere like Chicago, New York, or LA, I might have switched in response.
#883
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
True, but technically, anything below a Y fare is considered discount. Before B was repurposed, it was sort of a limbo fare - considered full fare for EQM purposes and flexibility, but still discounted compared to a Y fare.
#884
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
That's kind of the point. AA is clearly not particularly interested in shoveling a bunch of SWUs and RDMs towards the type of customer epitomized on FT: the person who turns $2-3,000 of spend on bottom-barrel cheap coach flights (maybe adding in a bunch of stops in AA hubs to maximize RDM) into a bunch of business class TATL/TPAC flights and premium class redemptions.
The argument's been made that FTers are a small subset of the elite pool (with some Kettles in the mix of course). I agree with that. And just as people say that FT is a small but vocal minority, I also think that the "gamers" are a small, vocal minority of that group. Thus we're looking at a rather insignificant number of gamers.
I think it would be foolish to redo an FFP just to counteract that small group. When you factor in the cost of developing the program in materials and labor, and also the risks of burning the customers you want to keep with those changes, I don't think the gamers warrant that level of attention.
I think something bigger's afoot, and it's more due to the oligopoly that the airlines don't think they need to compete on FFPs as much because in reality, where are you going to go? If you fly international, you're stuck with the big 3. Domestically you have a few more options, but in reality their programs aren't much different either and have been revenue based for much longer. So I think it comes down to feeling they don't need to incentivize travel because they're going to get it anyway.
If it was really about just eliminating the cheap elite, that could have been taken care of a long time ago and it hasn't. I think the cheap elite's just a straw man to cover for the lack of competition in the market.
#885
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Reminder: equally useless for you, not necessarily for everyone.
I wish they had made these changes earlier. I would have a lot more miles in my account if they had! For example, I just booked a ticket with a fare of $615 and a distance of 1,100 miles. As a Platinum under the old system, I will earn 3,250 currency miles. Under the new system, I would have earned 4920 currency miles! And now, if I make EP, I will be towards the top of the upgrade list when I use those miles for a leisure trip or purchase a deep discount fare myself.
For customers like me, the AA program was at a competitive disadvantage versus UA and DL before these changes. If I was a customer somewhere like Chicago, New York, or LA, I might have switched in response.
I wish they had made these changes earlier. I would have a lot more miles in my account if they had! For example, I just booked a ticket with a fare of $615 and a distance of 1,100 miles. As a Platinum under the old system, I will earn 3,250 currency miles. Under the new system, I would have earned 4920 currency miles! And now, if I make EP, I will be towards the top of the upgrade list when I use those miles for a leisure trip or purchase a deep discount fare myself.
For customers like me, the AA program was at a competitive disadvantage versus UA and DL before these changes. If I was a customer somewhere like Chicago, New York, or LA, I might have switched in response.
Long haul loses out and even flying premium doesn't help much there due to the earning caps and such. Just comparing my last international trip booked in D/P, I would have gotten at least 10k fewer miles under the new program.
I think the "rewarding our best customers" is just a smoke screen for an overall gutting of the program - from flying at least. I'm sure they'll continue to give out miles from CCs like candy though.