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-   -   AAgent visa requirements misinformation? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1765051-aagent-visa-requirements-misinformation.html)

RogerD408 May 11, 2016 8:03 am


Originally Posted by 3Cforme (Post 26608725)
They rely on TIMATIC for that. AA isn't going to develop resources of the scale of the State Department to determine visa needs, nor endlessly train 15,000 counter agents in the ever-changing nuances. It's going to be cheaper to bounce the rare edge case from a flight and let somebody else deal with it, frankly. Call it bad service if you want but it's commercial reality.

My point is, out of the many pages of text on TIMATIC just for China, discussing all points of entry and all means of transportation that only confuses the GAs, I see that boiled down to maybe a single screen that shows all the possible flying options to the few airports AA uses. This could be a good intern project with their Czar of International Travel reviewing what's presented.

The current method is find if you are one of the norms, but when you're one of the "edge cases", then there's got to be a better way.

MSPeconomist May 11, 2016 11:25 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26606821)
It is always 100% the passenger's responsibility to have the proper documents for travel. Asking customer service is a complete waste of time and, if CS is wrong, the customer is stuck.

Use TIMATIC yourself https://www.united.com/web/en-us/app...aspx?i=timatic (it's what the carriers use) or check with the consulate(s) of the countries which you will transit / enter.

The problem is that GAs either are lazy or don't know how to use TIMATIC properly. The OP had the required travel documents (TWOV compliant itinerary), but the GA was still refusing to let the person board.

erik123 May 11, 2016 11:34 am

It is not clear what flights you are on and what your nationality is. You can transit w/o visa in both MAA and AUH but it depends on a number of factors so difficult to give advice without further info. FYI - You can get a visa on arrival in India now (but need to pay on-line at least 4 days prior to arrival).

grrizzli May 11, 2016 11:41 am

Unfortunately, TIMATIC is badly written. There must be a way to present the information correctly, concisely in simple English. I understand why the agents make mistakes all the time, unless they use TIMATIC daily for complex cases.

ThreeJulietTango May 11, 2016 10:18 pm


Originally Posted by grrizzli (Post 26610071)
Unfortunately, TIMATIC is badly written. There must be a way to present the information correctly, concisely in simple English. I understand why the agents make mistakes all the time, unless they use TIMATIC daily for complex cases.

I've spoken to industry experts about Timatic's often vague phrasing and apparently this stems from a need to have standardized language and wording for a variety of possible cases. AA has rolled out enhancements to automatically read Timatic and thus reduce the chance of an agent error, but it's still dependent on the agent inputting the correct information in the first place.

IntFF May 12, 2016 6:56 am

Be on safe side, and have a printed copy that you do not need a visa from official website of the country at issue.

A few years ago I flew from South Africa to Zambia, and at check-in in Johannesburg, after checking her computer, the agent said: You cannot get on the flight, you don't have a visa to Zambia. I showed her a print from a Zambia Ministry website that I do not need a visa (I can get it when landing in Zambia).
She said: OK, just let me make a copy, so I am covered.
Then I told her: maybe you can update the system. Her answer was: I cannot, it is read-only for us.

RogerD408 May 12, 2016 7:21 am


Originally Posted by IntFF (Post 26614181)
Be on safe side, and have a printed copy that you do not need a visa from official website of the country at issue.

A few years ago I flew from South Africa to Zambia, and at check-in in Johannesburg, after checking her computer, the agent said: You cannot get on the flight, you don't have a visa to Zambia. I showed her a print from a Zambia Ministry website that I do not need a visa (I can get it when landing in Zambia).
She said: OK, just let me make a copy, so I am covered.
Then I told her: maybe you can update the system. Her answer was: I cannot, it is read-only for us.

Every agent will have their own way to deal with this. On the trip I did, first leg was out of RDU and the agent at the AC there asked about the visa and just told her what was on the Embassy site, got the DOCS OK flag. The GA at ORD was the only problem (and the Czar in Dallas). All worked out ok, but it was a bit frustrating flying there wondering what would happen at arrival.

SpammersAreScum May 12, 2016 8:55 am


Originally Posted by IntFF (Post 26614181)
Be on safe side, and have a printed copy that you do not need a visa from official website of the country at issue.

A few years ago I flew from South Africa to Zambia, and at check-in in Johannesburg, after checking her computer, the agent said: You cannot get on the flight, you don't have a visa to Zambia. I showed her a print from a Zambia Ministry website that I do not need a visa (I can get it when landing in Zambia).
She said: OK, just let me make a copy, so I am covered.
Then I told her: maybe you can update the system. Her answer was: I cannot, it is read-only for us.

Wow. I made the same trip in December and did not think to bring a printout. The Comair agent I got was better informed, fortunately. I am surprised that an agent in SA would be so misinformed.

A slightly more understandable visa discussion occurred when I flew TPA-DFW-NRT-SIN. The TPA AA agent flipped back and forth through my passport, obviously looking for an (unneeded) visa. "I don't see a visa for Japan." I pointed out that I did not need one for transit, and fortunately she was satisfied with that.

MSPeconomist May 12, 2016 9:31 am

Most GAs won't look at any printouts, only their interpretation of what their TIMATIC is telling them, even if they're using it incorrectly or reading it wrong.

In some ways AA passengers are lucky in that there is the visa czar (but only on weekdays during office hours--who knows what happens if that person is out sick or on vacation?) but unlucky in that sometimes even the visa czar seems to be wrong.

ThreeJulietTango May 12, 2016 9:54 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26606821)
It is always 100% the passenger's responsibility to have the proper documents for travel. Asking customer service is a complete waste of time and, if CS is wrong, the customer is stuck.

^ Reservations agents don't check passengers in nor are their jobs on the line based on their interpretations of Timatic. If in serious doubt, it might be best to go to the airport and ask someone there.


Originally Posted by 3Cforme (Post 26608725)
They rely on TIMATIC for that. AA isn't going to develop resources of the scale of the State Department to determine visa needs, nor endlessly train 15,000 counter agents in the ever-changing nuances. It's going to be cheaper to bounce the rare edge case from a flight and let somebody else deal with it, frankly. Call it bad service if you want but it's commercial reality.

^ In AA's eyes, this is vastly preferable to an immigration fine plus the possibility of the passenger being found inadmissible and immediately returned to their country of origin.


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 26615061)
Most GAs won't look at any printouts, only their interpretation of what their TIMATIC is telling them, even if they're using it incorrectly or reading it wrong.

^ ^ In the event of a discrepancy between a printout and a Timatic response, the agent is trained to side with Timatic.


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