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Speculation: Future of AA at PHX / Phoenix Sky Harbor?

Speculation: Future of AA at PHX / Phoenix Sky Harbor?

Old Jun 23, 2017, 8:54 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by scnzzz
(and I still don't think of BOS as a true hub; at least not in the sense that ORD, IAH, DFW, DEN etc. are)
WN has zero hubs in the classic sense of "hub". They make a lot of money flying people in airplanes, though. So does B6 out of BOS service. SEA is not exactly well positioned to be a hub for DL, but they have O/D. MSP isn't ideally geographically positioned, either. DL didn't ditch it post merger.

It's not 2001, AA's financial structure isn't a disaster any more. And it's not time to turn planes into beer cans again. PHX is fine.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jun 23, 2017 at 9:01 pm
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Old Jun 23, 2017, 11:40 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
WN has zero hubs in the classic sense of "hub". They make a lot of money flying people in airplanes, though. So does B6 out of BOS service. SEA is not exactly well positioned to be a hub for DL, but they have O/D. MSP isn't ideally geographically positioned, either. DL didn't ditch it post merger.

It's not 2001, AA's financial structure isn't a disaster any more. And it's not time to turn planes into beer cans again. PHX is fine.
I don't think anyone's saying PHX is going the way of STL/CLE/MEM. Maybe some capacity shifting; some consolidation through DFW where it makes sense. There was a post upthread remarking on how some pmUS 321s moved to DFW - but so what? That's just optimizing a network with many more hubs and destinations.

PHX is indeed fine. My only point was that the geography of PHX for at least intra-US connections isn't ideal (as carlosdca says, it's pretty well positioned for CA - MEX connections). PHX has a good population base, a fair bit of industry, and a good amount of sunbird tourism. All that's going to stay in favor of it remaining a hub. But cross-country itineraries can just as easily connect in ORD or DFW as PHX, so it's prominence in the network, relative to pmUS days, may well diminish as the network gets less redundant.

Edit to add:

SEA is an Asia gateway for DL, not a connecting hub by any means. Sort of like MIA/PHL and to a lesser degree JFK for AA but on a much smaller scale. Not even close to comparable to PHX which has barely any OW, and no AA metal, long-haul international connectivity.

WN has a very different business model relative to AA, as does B6. AA is a traditional (and strident) hub/spoke carrier - so the fact that WN and B6 can make money flying point-to-point routes is sort of irrelevant to AA. My point on this front was that BOS, a large metropolitan area (top 10), does not support a connecting hub by reason of its geography and climate, and despite its catchment area, wealth, business climate, etc. Lots of O/D, no hub. Why it's not a gateway, though, I don't get.

Last edited by scnzzz; Jun 23, 2017 at 11:46 pm
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 8:58 am
  #78  
 
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PHX does well at domestic connections within the western US, and LAX does well as a trans-Pacific gateway. Two different roles. LAX does not have room to handle PHX's traffic. Dehubbing PHX would mean a significant reduction in market share in the west.
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 10:19 am
  #79  
 
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Of all of the LUS hubs, I have seen the the most benefit from PHX. Always a way to get home from secondary cities on the west coast via the PHX redeye. And a way to get to all the secondary cities from O'Hare. PHX and CLT are the biggest reasons I supported the merger, and I know I can't be alone.
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 10:22 am
  #80  
 
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For what it's worth I'm doing my share to keep the PHX hub in demand, with roughly 80 flights in J or F per year on AA and BA to/from PHX alone.
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 4:08 pm
  #81  
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Originally Posted by melkor
I think many opinions here are being made based on the weather showing 120 degrees in Phoenix. It makes people wonder who would intentionally fly through there.
By this logic, people must wonder who would intentionally fly through DFW, as they have ice storms. @:-)
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 4:29 pm
  #82  
 
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I'm based in PHX so I guess I'm biased, but having connected through DFW and LAX many times post merger...PHX is way better. If I were flying on AA to somewhere out west and I had to make a connection, I would gladly take up to an 1 hour difference in total travel time to go through PHX. I fly through DFW at least twice a month and I am delayed almost 1/2 of the time. LAX you may have to catch the bus... I never connect here but PHX is super connection friendly as the two gates that are farthest apart are less than a 10 minute walk. The only advantage I would give LAX and DFW domestically is their Admirals club...the one's in PHX can get crowded.
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 8:16 pm
  #83  
 
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I've decided that it is personally better to have one longer and one shorter flight if you can't fly non-stop (doesn't matter which carrier).

With the disappearance of the /morelax url, I agree that AA wanted to maximize LAX, but it has been way too slow to keep up with the demand. I agree with others that PHX almost always offers the better late connection time that DFW doesn't offer.

HP, I mean US, sorry AA has plenty of ops space to manage whatever size operations. I am quite confident PHX will also offer almost any concession if needed after the antitrust hub maintain ended.

Do I get upset when I see the nonstop flight to LAX right next to my flight to PHX? Maybe for a second, but getting home from LAX is either too expensive, too tiring or too stressful.

Rasheed
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Old Jun 24, 2017, 10:11 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by scnzzz
ONT (LAX is a bit of a haul)
ONT was controlled by LA world airports and they promised to develop it. They didn't. Ontario just won control back in the courts so maybe things will change.
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