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772 "V4" Refitted 777-200ER B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business Seat / Seats

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Boeing 777-223ER "CIP" With B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business Seat

NOTE: This thread is specific to the 777-200ER Business Class fitted with the
B/E Aerospace Super Diamond (all forward facing) seats.


Boeing 777-223ER – 777 / 772 (47 total in fleet)
AA had arranged for Zodiac to build a modified "Concept D" Business Class seat to be used in the 787-8 and for the full 47 aircraft fleet 777-223ER refit. Difficulties in supplying the seat meant some 787-8s were parked awaiting seats to go into service and delays in the 772 refit. AA ultimately terminated Zodiac's contract, and they will only supply another ~12~13 772s.

B/E Aerospace also confirmed last night that it would be making seats for all three seating classes on Amercian (sic) Airlines’ new A350s.

David Thomas, the airline’s regional director for the UK/Ireland, Middle East and Africa, told the Belfast Telegraph it started working with B/E Aerospace after problems with former supplier Zodiac Aerospace. - May 3, 2016: Gary Leff, View from The Wing. Link.
American Airlines chooses new business seat for Dreamliner

JonNYC confirms the Super Diamond seat will debut on American Airlines Boeing 787-9 aircraft. Longboater confirms these will be used to refit the remaining ~23 772 aircraft not receiving the Zodiac "Concept D" seats.


State of the seat: N783AN was fitted with these seats and has been flying a few months (February 2017). Of 47 retrofitted, expect ~23-24 to get the current retrofit / CIP Zodiac "Concept D" seat. The remainder will receive the B/E Aerospace "Super Diamond" business seat, which are the seat selected for the A350 and 787-9. True Premium Economy will be added to the 777-223ER during the next three years as well (and "out of the box" on delivered 787-9, A350).

Link Star Telegram article.

From Brian Sumers' blog <link> 2 Feb 2016:

"Our goal is to have lie-flats on widebodies systemwide over the next year to year and a half," Fern Fernandez, American's vice president of global marketing, told me at the end of January. "We will catch up."

"We are just not far enough through [the retrofit] now," Andrew Nocella, American's chief marketing officer, told me. "We are disappointed by that. We are committed to getting it going as quickly as possible. It's hard to change an aircraft program midstream but in this particular case it was necessary."
From Gary Leff's "View from the Boarding Area": (24 Sep 2015)

"We have started looking for a new vendor to supply Business Class seats for our B787-9 aircraft and the remainder of our B777-200 retrofit aircraft. Zodiac has not been able to deliver new seats in a timely fashion according to the terms of its contract." AA spokesperson Laura Nedbal.
That means there will be two different new business class seats on American’s reconfigured 777-200s:

American says this will not alter the (delayed) timeline for reconfiguring 777-200 aircraft.

They will not be changing seats for the ~23 77D or the 787-8 aircraft.

Here’s the full detail on American’s seat plans for ...777-200 aircraft:

"The B777-200 260-seat configuration (15 aircraft) that we are retrofitting now will be completed with the Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite.

The B777-200 289-seat configuration (34 aircraft) will be mixed between the Zodiac Business Suite and the new Business Class seat. We have not finalized the exact numbers, but expect the Zodiac Business Suite will be on no more than 10 (more) of the 289-seat aircraft (total 23).

We will keep 13 aircraft in a 260 seat configuration, which will be one subfleet. For the 289 seat configuration, if we mix seat types, the seat maps may be different, but the configuration will remain the same." AA spokesperson Laura Nedbal

Actual 772 variants that will result:

47 777-223ER, all with J, PE, E and Y, in three variants:
  • 13: 260-seat configuration retrofitted with the Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite

  • ~10: 289-seat configuration with Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite

  • 24: 289-seat configuration with the B/E Aerospace "Super Diamond"
See aa.com's Boeing 777-200 Retrofit page for more information and renderings

Estimated time of completion (revised Dec 2014): end of 2017?

Program details:
  • AA's Boeing 772 / 777-200ER / 777-223ER CIP (Cabin Improvement Program) / refurbishment began Q1 2014 with the test article. First flights with the new configuration were October 2014. (Delayed from September)
  • Zodiac's inability to supply "Concept D" Business seats has slowed CIP refit to a crawl; 4 of 47 772s completed by July 2015
  • Early May 2016 saw 14 Zodiac fitted "77D" in service
  • Inaugural use of Super Diamond yet unknown
  • End of 2017 sees 47 772 refurbished, three class (J, PE, MCE & Y) aircraft
If you're flying in Business Class on our redesigned 777-200, you'll enjoy: (applies to Zodiac aircraft, probably Super Diamond, equipped 772s)
  • Our Business Suite, which features seats that transform into fully lie-flat 77-inch beds and provide infinite adjustability in the upright position, including a unique z-shaped lounge position for increased comfort
  • Aisle access at every seat for ease in moving about the cabin
    International Wi-Fi capability keeping you connected anywhere on the globe
  • Dual universal AC power outlets and USB ports at every seat
  • A 16-inch touchscreen monitor offers up to 250 movies, more than 180 TV programs and more than 350 audio selections
  • Bose® QuietComfort® 15 Acoustic Noise Cancelling® headsets for use in
  • flight
  • A walk-up bar stocked with a selection of snacks and refreshments
  • Amenity kits filled with inviting and rejuvenating products
Link (includes photos)
Initial Cabin changes from the pre-October 2014 777-200 (coded "777" in the schedule):
  • First class is eliminated
  • Business class seats are replaced with 45 fully flat horizontal Zodiac seats with direct aisle access, rear/forward facing
  • 45 Main Cabin Extra 18"-wide seats 9-abreast in a 3-4-3-configuration
  • 170 Main Cabin 17"-wide seats 10-abreast in a 3-4-3 configuration, as on the 777-300ER
  • International (satellite-based) Wi-Fi is installed
  • In-seat IFE will be upgraded, and every seat will have 110V and USB
Updated 8 May 2016 - JDiver

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Old May 9, 12, 12:05 pm
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772 "V4" Refitted 777-200ER B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business Seat / Seats

Clip of SeatGuru J seats layout below. Link to full SeatGuru page (when one is published).

Last edited by JDiver; Jul 10, 17 at 1:57 pm
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Old May 9, 12, 12:05 pm
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772 "V3" Refitted 777-200ER B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business Seat / Seats

Four of 47 777-223ER hulls had been refitted as of August 2015, it was time to start a thread on Business seating for this aircraft.

Note illustrations here. The seats that are "attached at the head" are the ones that are subject to movement induced by the attached chair unit - "motion over the ocean".

AA has stated they will remediate the issue, but any stiffeners or hardware changes must be STCd by the FAA. This means it is likely to take some time to accomplish elimination of the induced motion.

Charts c/o SeatGuru.
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Old Jul 25, 16, 11:07 pm
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The first 772 hull with the B/E Aerospace Super Diamond seats is out of the blocks! N783AN.

See Boarding Area: One Mile at a Time: link.


C/o Boarding Area: One Mile at a Time

OMAAT reader Jacob said

"The seats felt a little wider than the older version, and of course, all the seats were forward facing instead of the alternating forward and backward. Everything was pretty similar except for a few things:

  • Instead of turning on the reading light with the remote control, you physically pushed it out of the console.

  • The tray table has a latch under it to extend it and pull it closer to you. This was the only thing that gave the flight attendants a little trouble.

  • The seatbelt airbag thing somehow got even bigger. Now it’s just absurdly big. And the seatbelt you actually click into a buckle that’s actually inside the seat. More like a normal car."

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Old Jul 26, 16, 9:54 am
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So then they reconfigured an already reconfigured aircraft? Ship N783AN was the first ship to receive the low density J and high density Y cabin with the Zodiac seat. Very interesting.
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Old Jul 26, 16, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by brc757rr View Post
So then they reconfigured an already reconfigured aircraft? Ship N783AN was the first ship to receive the low density J and high density Y cabin with the Zodiac seat. Very interesting.
I'm guessing this allows them to test out the new seat without waiting for a complete overhaul of Y and any other modifications the old planes need.
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Old Jul 26, 16, 10:39 am
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Originally Posted by jay_dubya View Post
I'm guessing this allows them to test out the new seat without waiting for a complete overhaul of Y and any other modifications the old planes need.
I think you're correct.

The infrastructure changes probably require a full widebody C check prior to seats installation (wiring, etc.) and they apparently jumped on the first low-high Zodiac converted (initial test article) aircraft.

As AA intends to use this seat for about half of the 772 fleet, all 787-9 and A350 aircraft, it makes good sense to get an early shakedown in hopes of avoiding another Zodiac debacle.
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Old Jul 26, 16, 10:41 am
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Originally Posted by brc757rr View Post
So then they reconfigured an already reconfigured aircraft? Ship N783AN was the first ship to receive the low density J and high density Y cabin with the Zodiac seat. Very interesting.
That is mitey odd indeed... Perhaps they will decide to ditch the concept D seats completely? Given the myriad problems they still have with them so long after initial introduction (feeling joined seat moving, dividers fixed in place), perhaps this makes sense...
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Old Jul 27, 16, 1:00 pm
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
I think you're correct.

The infrastructure changes probably require a full widebody C check prior to seats installation (wiring, etc.) and they apparently jumped on the first low-high Zodiac converted (initial test article) aircraft.

As AA intends to use this seat for about half of the 772 fleet, all 787-9 and A350 aircraft, it makes good sense to get an early shakedown in hopes of avoiding another Zodiac debacle.
Do these refurbs coincide with the Heavy C's? If not, I guess there is nothing preventing an airline from doing the Heavy C with this early so that the bird does not go out of action for such an extended period of time twice in a few years.

~TC
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Old Aug 21, 16, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by travelgeek1197 View Post
Do these refurbs coincide with the Heavy C's? If not, I guess there is nothing preventing an airline from doing the Heavy C with this early so that the bird does not go out of action for such an extended period of time twice in a few years.

~TC
Agreed. If I were at AA I'd contract with HAECO to accomplish the necessary work when the aircraft is due a C check. Then, when the seat set is available, the aircraft goes out of service fora much shorter time (at a US contractor's site?) for the necessary CIP interior removal and installation.
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Old Aug 24, 16, 3:37 pm
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
Agreed. If I were at AA I'd contract with HAECO to accomplish the necessary work when the aircraft is due a C check. Then, when the seat set is available, the aircraft goes out of service fora much shorter time (at a US contractor's site?) for the necessary CIP interior removal and installation.
That is my thoughts as well.....almost doing the prep during the HEAVY C, so the rest can be done in Tulsa or something quickly. However, you and I both know that regardless of what sense that makes, would be cheaper for HAECO to do everything and unfortunately, I think the current team at AA is more penny wise, pound foolish.

Although now they are instead of ferrying flights to HAECO, it appears they are sending some 772's there as a rev flight from DFW.....guess they assume they won't sell enough seats to have load restriction issues associated with the 772s on such a long flight. Perhaps they just reframe from selling any cargo to ensure no pax get bumped, or figure any bumped just go out on the 77W less than 2 hours later.


~TG
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Old Aug 25, 16, 2:33 am
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Originally Posted by travelgeek1197 View Post
Although now they are instead of ferrying flights to HAECO, it appears they are sending some 772's there as a rev flight from DFW.....guess they assume they won't sell enough seats to have load restriction issues associated with the 772s on such a long flight. Perhaps they just reframe from selling any cargo to ensure no pax get bumped, or figure any bumped just go out on the 77W less than 2 hours later.
These 772 HKG flights go out restricted in both cargo and passenger loads, in all 3 classes. This means they don't sell the planes to capacity, they sell to a lower, load-restricted capacity (basically treating the planes as if they have fewer seats). These would be especially great options for passengers flying economy, as the old 772 layout is 9 abreast all the way back, and there shouldn't be a lot of occupied middle seats.
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Old Aug 25, 16, 3:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Microwave View Post
These 772 HKG flights go out restricted in both cargo and passenger loads, in all 3 classes. This means they don't sell the planes to capacity, they sell to a lower, load-restricted capacity (basically treating the planes as if they have fewer seats). These would be especially great options for passengers flying economy, as the old 772 layout is 9 abreast all the way back, and there shouldn't be a lot of occupied middle seats.
Not sure where that info comes from, and not sure what experience you have with load restricted flights, but I can tell you I have seen AA on more than one occasion address load restricted flights simply by bumping people. Been there, seen that on 772s.

So its good to see if they have changed their approach and actually sell less seats.

~TG
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Old Aug 25, 16, 3:41 pm
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That's the case when the flight becomes (relatively) unexpectedly load-restricted, such as if there are stronger winds than forecast. If it's a restriction known in advance then AA will artificially limit the amount of seats for sale.
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Old Aug 30, 16, 2:10 pm
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Just got back from a MR DFW-NRT and had the new seats on both flights. Nice addition to the fleet because all the seats face forward, no movement from neighbor. It was in the 37j configuration. Had seat 4L going and 7A coming back. in 4L the seat felt a little tight when trying to sleep, the foot well is a little small. Coming back had 7A, a bulkhead and the I loved the seat, lots of room to move around. 7A only has one window but is positioned nicely so you can see out. All the seats have the airbags in the seatbelt and made it a little uncomfortable to sleep with it on. My opinion, not as nice as J in the 77w but better than all the other products AA offers.
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Old Aug 31, 16, 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by ThreeJulietTango View Post
That's the case when the flight becomes (relatively) unexpectedly load-restricted, such as if there are stronger winds than forecast. If it's a restriction known in advance then AA will artificially limit the amount of seats for sale.
Sounds good......but in reality LAA did not operate that way. Saw long haul flights LR 10+ days out of a month, all with bumped pax, or just avoided it by the skin of there teeth by two no-shows. Certain routes during certain times of the year may be considered "unexpected" in that it doesn't happen every day. But when there is a 40%+ of unfavorable winds, you cannot consider that unexpected.

But again, as I have said, it appears the way they handle such things has changed from what Microwave said.

~TG
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