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ARCHIVE: FAQ: Missing / Skipping Segment - Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing

ARCHIVE: FAQ: Missing / Skipping Segment - Hidden City / Point Beyond Ticketing

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Old Jun 28, 12, 10:54 am
  #811  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by RogerD408 View Post
Yes, I've read the same post about two years ago. And if I recall it was more than one. I believe they were dumping the DFW AUS leg to get the lower fare.
Thanks

I shouldn't have used a word "forced" in my previous post.
Most likely the original poster posted something like "AA agent escorted him nicely to the gate of the connecting flight. The agent didn't mentioned anything about HCT but he fully realised why he was escorted and he decided to fly to the fake final destination(AUS). "

Hopefully someone find the post ....
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Old Jun 28, 12, 1:08 pm
  #812  
 
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Originally Posted by RogerD408 View Post
Yes, I've read the same post about two years ago. And if I recall it was more than one. I believe they were dumping the DFW AUS leg to get the lower fare.
I think I found one of the posts at # 76 in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
Hopefully everyone enjoys reading it
Now I am just curious to know if the folks in the suit are still somewhere nowadays.

Originally Posted by techgirl View Post
I personally know enough people who HAVE been caught that there is NO way I would ever even THINK of selling my miles.

On the anecdotal side, I also know a number of people who have been quite active with selling their miles or certs or other activities that the airlines might view as fraud - and who have not been caught yet (or at least have not admitted to it).

As I've commented before, I have former colleagues who have met the folks in the suits before - trust me, they are real. My old firm had a habit in the late 90s of encouraging us to do throw away ticketing and other activities that violated ticketing rules... until the suits started meeting connecting flights at DFW and personally escorting my colleagues to their "next" flight (i.e. the one they were going to "throw away" or not take). It only took that happening to a handful of folks on a Friday night (who were forced to fly to Austin and miss their family until Saturday morning) before we put pressure on our management to stop that ticketing practice.
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Old Jun 28, 12, 2:13 pm
  #813  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 View Post
What about #1 and having the BP scanned but not boarding the flight?
What about missed flight connections due to delays?
i.e. AC HKG-YVR-LAX HKG-YVR is late, and HKG-LAX costs less?
What about flyers who purposely don't obey minimum connecting time and want to get off at the intermediate point?
i.e. WS 562 connecting to WS 1512, and pax wants to fly only YVR-YYC?
And, with WS I am safe as I only have $12 or so in their acct.
I might begin crediting to AA though, and that's beyond the control of WS.
I don't believe someone can have their boarding pass scanned and still remain off the flight. I'm pretty sure procedures require that a passenger be deboarded on the computer if they physically do not fly on that flight. Regarding MCT: it's up to the airline to enforce that and not sell tickets that violate their policy. If someone buys two separate tickets, I would think they'd have been charged the appropriate two one-way fares.
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Old Jun 28, 12, 3:10 pm
  #814  
 
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After reading all these posts, I'm reminded that members of FlyerTalk sometimes have an amazing knack for making something simple very complex.
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Old Jun 28, 12, 3:41 pm
  #815  
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Originally Posted by pinniped View Post
Link? If this statement is true, then the results of the case where the Federal government criminally prosecuted a hidden-city flier and received a wire fraud conviction will be public record. Personally, I think it's BS but it should be easily to prove, one way or another.

(Even AA's letter, which I've seen before, indicated that they do not believe hidden-city is criminal. Those form letters appear to be set up mainly to send to travel agents who book such tickets, since AA holds complete leverage over travel agents.)

I'm not even aware of a carrier suing an individual in a U.S. civil court for breach-of-contract because of hidden-city. They know they have no net winning outcome from such a suit.
Well, it wasn't hidden city, but Katun Corporation was indicted by the federal government for wire fraud and engaging in a scheme to defraud for violating saturday night stay requirements for airline tickets and back to back ticketing among other things. The corporation eventually pled guilty.
http://www.justice.gov/archive/dag/c...nformation.pdf
See also this Scott McCartney article:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article...956275858.html

The corporation pervasively engaged in these practices which would seem to differentiate it from examples that are being discussed here.
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Old Jun 28, 12, 5:16 pm
  #816  
 
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Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 View Post
Once again, #2 won't help with some of the things.
I have a CC that I am about to cancel anyways (aerogold) so that won't help.
Good luck with that! Every tried to cancel a CC and found that merchants have no trouble continuing to charge you? Unless you claim fraud, canceling your card won't get you off the hook, with good reason.
What about #1 and having the BP scanned but not boarding the flight?
What about the passengers on the plane listening to your name being called repeatedly until you're finally off-loaded?
What about missed flight connections due to delays?
i.e. AC HKG-YVR-LAX HKG-YVR is late, and HKG-LAX costs less?
What about flyers who purposely don't obey minimum connecting time and want to get off at the intermediate point?
i.e. WS 562 connecting to WS 1512, and pax wants to fly only YVR-YYC?
And, with WS I am safe as I only have $12 or so in their acct.
I might begin crediting to AA though, and that's beyond the control of WS.
Bottom line is that airlines could transfer the burden of proof to you. If something legitimate happens to cause you to miss the flight, they can deal with that as an exception.

This actually reminds me of a time when I got a ticket to Milwaukee via Chicago. I was going home, closer to ORD than MKE, but MKE was somewhat cheaper and I had plenty of time. My connecting flight out of ORD was cancelled before I got there and they were planning to put us on a bus. When I told the agent I was content to find my own way home, she smiled and handed me a discount voucher as well as giving me original flight credit. It might look suspicious to an auditor, but in this case was perfectly legit.
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Old Jul 19, 12, 11:55 am
  #817  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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skipping last leg on award ticket?

I booked 2 tickets as follows.
  • JFK-LHR on AA100 by First class [email protected] miles
  • LHR-FRA cheapo economy class(revenue ticket) on LH

As there was/is no convienient connecting flight on AA/BA for LHR-FRA available for award, I decided to buy LHR-FRA on LH separately.

A layover @LHR is 3 hours. It should be enough time for [email protected] if AA100 flies on time.
But I know I am taking a risk here.

As a back-up plan, I am thinking of changing my award ticket to JFK-LHR-FRA from JFK-LHR.
I think it is possible without change fee and with the same 65K miles.
As there is 10+ hours layover @LHR for JFK-LHR-FRA,I will fly LHR-FRA on LH and skip(or throw away?) LHR-FRA on AA/BA if AA100 JFK-LHR arrives at LHR on time.

Is this allowed? I will be happy to call AA to cancel LHR-FRA leg after I arrive at LHR if needed.

Last edited by supergrandslam; Jul 19, 12 at 12:01 pm
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Old Jul 19, 12, 12:46 pm
  #818  
 
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Originally Posted by supergrandslam View Post
I booked 2 tickets as follows.
  • JFK-LHR on AA100 by First class [email protected] miles
  • LHR-FRA cheapo economy class(revenue ticket) on LH

As there was/is no convienient connecting flight on AA/BA for LHR-FRA available for award, I decided to buy LHR-FRA on LH separately.

A layover @LHR is 3 hours. It should be enough time for [email protected] if AA100 flies on time.
But I know I am taking a risk here.

As a back-up plan, I am thinking of changing my award ticket to JFK-LHR-FRA from JFK-LHR.
I think it is possible without change fee and with the same 65K miles.
As there is 10+ hours layover @LHR for JFK-LHR-FRA,I will fly LHR-FRA on LH and skip(or throw away?) LHR-FRA on AA/BA if AA100 JFK-LHR arrives at LHR on time.

Is this allowed? I will be happy to call AA to cancel LHR-FRA leg after I arrive at LHR if needed.
You could no show the LHR-FRA segment but any additional segments yet to be used will be cancelled. As an EXP you can change without fee. The only issue I have is by you doing this with the intent of not using the segment is it takes it out of inventory for someone wanting to use miles. Unethical in my book.
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Old Jul 19, 12, 3:48 pm
  #819  
 
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Thanks. I am still thinking if there is any other option to hedge the risk.
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Old Jul 19, 12, 10:19 pm
  #820  
 
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Originally Posted by NiceLanding View Post

2) Program the computer to automatically re-cost the ticket and charge you immediately if you don't fly that connecting leg, putting the burden of proof on you to prove that you did fly it to get a refund. I'd bet the credit card companies would side with the airlines if such a system was documented in the rules and applied consistently, universally, and automatically.
No part of the above is correct. First of all, you need to provide the security code from your card every time a charge is made and the merchant's security software requires use of that code. Second, the credit card companies would NEVER go for it; they will never support charges that were not specifically authorized by the cardholder. If they sided with the airlines on this they'd probably end up in court. Finally, it would be a PR nightmare; putting the burden on the customers in that way would never fly.
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Old Jul 20, 12, 12:57 am
  #821  
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Originally Posted by supergrandslam View Post

As a back-up plan, I am thinking of changing my award ticket to JFK-LHR-FRA from JFK-LHR.
I think it is possible without change fee and with the same 65K miles.
Nope. You are changing from an AA only award to a partner award.
Doing this would normally cost $150.
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Old Jul 20, 12, 7:35 am
  #822  
 
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Originally Posted by mvoight View Post
Nope. You are changing from an AA only award to a partner award.
Doing this would normally cost $150.
But as an EXP wouldn't the OP have the redeposit fee waived, hence the ability to change the award (assuming inventory is available)?
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Old Jul 20, 12, 8:28 am
  #823  
 
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Originally Posted by Upgraded! View Post
No part of the above is correct. First of all, you need to provide the security code from your card every time a charge is made and the merchant's security software requires use of that code. Second, the credit card companies would NEVER go for it; they will never support charges that were not specifically authorized by the cardholder. If they sided with the airlines on this they'd probably end up in court. Finally, it would be a PR nightmare; putting the burden on the customers in that way would never fly.
Your experience in this area must be fairly narrow for you to believe any of this. I could cite many examples of my own, both as a cardholder and as a merchant with a number of banks and gateways, to support the particulars of my original proposal. Really not worth arguing about, though (unless you represent an airline willing to pay me to implement such a system!).
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Old Dec 17, 12, 12:59 pm
  #824  
 
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Another missing leg Q

Hello,
There is an upcoming scenario I'd like advice on:

Intended trip:
March 1- US mainland to Asia on AA/OneWorld alliance
March 9- Asia to US mainland on AA/OneWorld alliance
RT fare 1400

in between:
March 5- Asia to EU x 2 days, CX/OneWorld alliance
March 8- EU to Asia, CI (Dyanasty alliance)

To recap:
March 1-9 is a RT flight on the same carrier/alliance
March 5-8 is two separate flights, second carrier/alliance)

There is a possibility that I may not be able to make it back from EU to Asia on March 8, and if so would change my 1 way flight from EU--> Asia on that day to EU-->US mainland, but it would likely be with Dyanasty alliance.

The questions are:
1. If end up having to do the latter change, above, and I do not fly the 2nd leg of the March 1-9 RT flight, will I lose any miles or be flagged? I will of course tell the airline that I cannot make it as I have changed my plans, and I would not want a refund. But currently if I book March 1 as a one-way ticket, the cost is about 1900, so the airline will have reason to be upset because they could have collected more (1900) for what ends up being a one-way costing 1400. Of course anticipating this problem I could book two separate one-way to Asia March 1 and March 9, but that would be 3800!

2. Will immigration in the EU, Asia, or US mainland have any issues with me jumping around the world and deviating from a schedule that might be in their system (do they cross check airline reservations)?

Thanks
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Old Dec 17, 12, 5:25 pm
  #825  
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Originally Posted by NiceLanding View Post
Your experience in this area must be fairly narrow for you to believe any of this. I could cite many examples of my own, both as a cardholder and as a merchant with a number of banks and gateways, to support the particulars of my original proposal. Really not worth arguing about, though (unless you represent an airline willing to pay me to implement such a system!).
With TD merchant systems freedom V
Enter amount
Enter card #
enter exp date
Enter CVV
I tried doing the last step wrong on purpose with a valid credit card that has money on it for $0.01 and it was declined.
I think that Chase Paymentech requires the same thing.
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