Dec 26, 15, 4:07 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
This is the archive of older posts from the OSO thread; for the current thread see
AA OSO, IROPS / IRROPS, delay, cancelation etc. resources (master thread
AA OSO, IROPS / IRROPS, delay, cancelation etc. resources (master thread
ARCHIVE: AA OSO, IROPS / IRROPS, delay, cancelation etc. resources thru 2019
Jul 30, 16, 4:12 pm
#421
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Programs: HHonors Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, AA LT Plat, DL Silver
Posts: 501
IRROPS PHX July 29 2016
Flew from IAH bound for PHX last night when storms starting kicking up in PHX area. After circling 200 miles outside of PHX, the pilot said that we were going to divert to TUS for more fuel. Landed in Tucson, eventually got our fuel. While waiting for new flight plan which pilot said was taken way longer than it should, the weather in PHX which had been getting better began to turn again. PHX was on a ground stop and the pilot informed us that we would be on the ground for another hour. That announcement was followed by one that said that we were going to wait for a gate because the pilots would end up timing out.
We were instructed to deplane and the AA agents (it is now 11:00 PM or so), were handing each passenger a scrap of paper off of a pad that basically said call this 800 number and get rescheduled. They tried getting away without providing any assistance whatsoever.
Given that is was "only" 11:00 PM and the weather was due to clear, I feel like AA was responsible for putting us up for the night. Instead, they just kept repeating "we were told that this cancellation was due to weather" and we were instructed to give you the telephone number to call to get rescheduled. Besides, they continued, there are no hotel rooms available near the airport.
IMHO, it seems like AA was either responsible for scheduling the pilots with no leeway in case of an issue OR, they should have provisions (like a spare deck crew, even in a non-hub station).
I finally caved, took responsibility for myself and found a room at a Hilton Garden Inn at the airport. When I got there on their shuttle, the agent (now its midnight) told me that it was good that I called when I did, because Delta took the balance of their available rooms for their PAX in similar situation.
What strikes me oddly is that the average kettle wasn't putting up much of a flight. No rooms, no food and they generally accepted it. To me this is totally unacceptable.
I am no better than anybody else, but this ExPlat is not happy. I am going to write to AA and send them my hotel bill and see what happens.
We were instructed to deplane and the AA agents (it is now 11:00 PM or so), were handing each passenger a scrap of paper off of a pad that basically said call this 800 number and get rescheduled. They tried getting away without providing any assistance whatsoever.
Given that is was "only" 11:00 PM and the weather was due to clear, I feel like AA was responsible for putting us up for the night. Instead, they just kept repeating "we were told that this cancellation was due to weather" and we were instructed to give you the telephone number to call to get rescheduled. Besides, they continued, there are no hotel rooms available near the airport.
IMHO, it seems like AA was either responsible for scheduling the pilots with no leeway in case of an issue OR, they should have provisions (like a spare deck crew, even in a non-hub station).
I finally caved, took responsibility for myself and found a room at a Hilton Garden Inn at the airport. When I got there on their shuttle, the agent (now its midnight) told me that it was good that I called when I did, because Delta took the balance of their available rooms for their PAX in similar situation.
What strikes me oddly is that the average kettle wasn't putting up much of a flight. No rooms, no food and they generally accepted it. To me this is totally unacceptable.
I am no better than anybody else, but this ExPlat is not happy. I am going to write to AA and send them my hotel bill and see what happens.
Jul 30, 16, 4:16 pm
#422
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,271
In some past instances AA has reportedly covered EXPs during weather delays/cancellations. However, as I'm sure you're aware, in the US airlines are under no obligation to do so. Best of luck with the reimbursement.
Jul 30, 16, 4:19 pm
#423
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 119
Sorry to hear about this unfortunate situation. I am surprised they did not wait longer to fly into Phx, as this is a very short flight. I would guess that very few passengers would be connecting to other flights late in the evening.
At any rate, did you think about taking an airport shuttle from TUS to PHX? I have looked in the past, and this is probably $50ish one way. This might have been cheaper than getting a hotel room?
At any rate, did you think about taking an airport shuttle from TUS to PHX? I have looked in the past, and this is probably $50ish one way. This might have been cheaper than getting a hotel room?
Jul 30, 16, 4:28 pm
#424
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 3,253
Just a guess, but maybe the ground agents were near the end of their shifts and management decided to have them pass out numbers rather than paying them the overtime that would be required to handle rebooking?
Jul 30, 16, 4:30 pm
#425
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 3,253
Jul 30, 16, 4:32 pm
#426
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM; UA 1K; AA 1MM
Posts: 3,898
OP, this certainly wasn't a fun experience for you and it sounds like the ground crew in PHX could have done more to at least help with reschedules.
Unfortunately, regarding hotels, this really does sound weather driven (of course, airlines will always use weather even if weather is only one of many factors).
I must respectfully disagree with the notion that airlines can/should have spare crews at every outstation. The cost to have a flight crew sitting idly 'just in case' at each of AA's 350 airports would be astronomical. And it would have to be more than one crew, since different crews are certified for different types of aircrafts. It's just not something that's feasible.
Unfortunately, regarding hotels, this really does sound weather driven (of course, airlines will always use weather even if weather is only one of many factors).
I must respectfully disagree with the notion that airlines can/should have spare crews at every outstation. The cost to have a flight crew sitting idly 'just in case' at each of AA's 350 airports would be astronomical. And it would have to be more than one crew, since different crews are certified for different types of aircrafts. It's just not something that's feasible.
Jul 30, 16, 5:02 pm
#428
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,250
Looks like you were on AA478. There seems to have been some rough storms. Some UA flights out of IAH got diverted to LAS. Others - like UA 867 - got diverted to TUS and its unclear as to if it made it to PHX or not.
What you had was a diversion (owing to weather), a fuel stop (owing to weather and fuel issues), a ground stop at TUS (owing to weather), and pilots timing out (owing to weather and scheduling).
Unfortunately, airlines aren't obligated to put people up in hotels owing to what the weather gods do. They used to, but its not standard any more.
Hopefully you got back to PHX in good order this morning.
What you had was a diversion (owing to weather), a fuel stop (owing to weather and fuel issues), a ground stop at TUS (owing to weather), and pilots timing out (owing to weather and scheduling).
Unfortunately, airlines aren't obligated to put people up in hotels owing to what the weather gods do. They used to, but its not standard any more.
Hopefully you got back to PHX in good order this morning.
Last edited by IADCAflyer; Jul 30, 16 at 5:12 pm
Jul 30, 16, 5:31 pm
#429
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 2,085
My connection cancelled due to weather a few days ago in JFK. I was on the last flight to DC and there was nothing available from any airport til the next morning. When I landed (from LHR) agents were waiting for me with hotel vouchers and transportation vouchers with a confirmed seat in First on the Shuttle from LGA the next morning. It was a nice gesture, but I had been traveling for 30 hours at that point and just wanted to get home, so Amtrak it was.
Not sure if they covered my hotel due to the fact that I was EXP or what, but it was quite nice of them to do all of that for me.
Not sure if they covered my hotel due to the fact that I was EXP or what, but it was quite nice of them to do all of that for me.
Jul 30, 16, 5:38 pm
#430
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 13,627
My connection cancelled due to weather a few days ago in JFK. I was on the last flight to DC and there was nothing available from any airport til the next morning. When I landed (from LHR) agents were waiting for me with hotel vouchers and transportation vouchers with a confirmed seat in First on the Shuttle from LGA the next morning. It was a nice gesture, but I had been traveling for 30 hours at that point and just wanted to get home, so Amtrak it was.
Not sure if they covered my hotel due to the fact that I was EXP or what, but it was quite nice of them to do all of that for me.
Not sure if they covered my hotel due to the fact that I was EXP or what, but it was quite nice of them to do all of that for me.
Jul 30, 16, 6:12 pm
#431
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,203
AA's conditions of carriage require them to provide a hotel when a flight cancels at a diversion point.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...age.jsp#delays
In extreme circumstances, it is possible that a flight will cancel while on the ground in the city to which it was diverted. When this happens you will be rerouted on the next American flight with available seats, or in some circumstances on another airline or some other alternative means of transportation. If we are unable to reroute you, reasonable overnight accommodations will be provided by American, subject to availability.
Jul 30, 16, 6:59 pm
#432
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Programs: HHonors Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, AA LT Plat, DL Silver
Posts: 501
Thank You SamOF.
AA had many diversions to TUS because of the PHX storms. It is my understanding that many of those planes eventually made it to PHX in the wee hours of the morning. I asked AA folks if I could wait and jump on one of those and they told me that it was not possible. Not sure if that is an AA rule or Federal Law, but that is beside the point. My aircraft COULD NOT make it to PHX because of a crew time out. It can't be called weather if all of the other planes are able to eventually get out.
Of course they can't have every type of crew available at every out station at all times. That wouldn't be cost effective. That said, they have a risk that this type of thing is going to happen and have to "self insure" and pay the costs associated with the issue.
I just want to be treated reasonably and fairly. And truthfully, I want that for everybody else too.
AA had many diversions to TUS because of the PHX storms. It is my understanding that many of those planes eventually made it to PHX in the wee hours of the morning. I asked AA folks if I could wait and jump on one of those and they told me that it was not possible. Not sure if that is an AA rule or Federal Law, but that is beside the point. My aircraft COULD NOT make it to PHX because of a crew time out. It can't be called weather if all of the other planes are able to eventually get out.
Of course they can't have every type of crew available at every out station at all times. That wouldn't be cost effective. That said, they have a risk that this type of thing is going to happen and have to "self insure" and pay the costs associated with the issue.
I just want to be treated reasonably and fairly. And truthfully, I want that for everybody else too.
Jul 30, 16, 7:20 pm
#433
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,257
And in that you would be incorrect. If the original divert to TUS was due to weather in PHX (it was) and if the ground stop that affected you once you were on the ground in TUS was due to weather (it was), and if the combination of those things caused your flight crew to reach their FAA-mandated duty hours limits ["time out"] (they did), then the subsequent cancellation is indeed due to weather. Other flights' crews not timing out is not material to the specific circumstance of the flight crew operating your plane.
Part of expecting fair and reasonable treatment from the airline is on your part having a fair and reasonable understanding of the circumstance.
Jul 30, 16, 8:13 pm
#434
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Everywhere
Programs: AA EXP - 3.7MM, Bonv LIFETIME Titan, HH Dmd, Hyatt Glob., Priority Clb Dmd, Ntnl Exec El., Sixt PLT
Posts: 1,601
AA cancels flight "due to airport conditions"
One of my colleagues was flying today, June 30, HEL-JFK-RDU on a AY ticket with JFK-RDU segment on AA#4360 sold as AY codeshare.
AA#4360 was cancelled "due to airport conditions" according to AA EXP desk - they were unable to determine which airport. The weather at RDU was fine. With no status with OneWorld my colleague was put on next morning flight out of LGA and AA refused to issue hotel and meal vouchers "because he did not purchase travel insurance".
I have never heard of "airport conditions" as a reason for cancellation and, I think, it should be the airline responsibility. Any suggestions? Contact AA Twitter?
AA#4360 was cancelled "due to airport conditions" according to AA EXP desk - they were unable to determine which airport. The weather at RDU was fine. With no status with OneWorld my colleague was put on next morning flight out of LGA and AA refused to issue hotel and meal vouchers "because he did not purchase travel insurance".
I have never heard of "airport conditions" as a reason for cancellation and, I think, it should be the airline responsibility. Any suggestions? Contact AA Twitter?
Jul 30, 16, 10:35 pm
#435
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,850
I have to wonder if there was something going on with the field at RDU. The 1:47pm Delta JFK-RDU flight was diverted and their 3:55pm JFK-RDU flight has been pushed back to Sunday morning. The DL 8:35pm flight had a 139 min departure delay. Looks like AA and DL flights LGA-RDU also had delays up to 5 hours.
