Dave Noble

I disagree with that; for trips between Europe and SWP I have been paying 1st class fares and the redemption values have been a consideration. Using Emirates, I was earning 6 times that which a discount economy traveller would earn and was providing a decent kickback. That EK is a very nice carrier , the mileage earning really cemented the deal

I wouldn't presume that those buying expensive tickets do not care about redemption values


Indeed - I would agree that most economy passengers will be worse off, that does not translate to all people will be worse off - frequent travellers in paid 1st and business will have better incentive to use AA rather than having a situation where they can easily be worse off or no better earning wise than an economy passenger ( e.g. a Gold member on cheapest economy ticket getting same kickbacks as a non status member on a full fare business class ticket )

conklaven

You can argue your point till your blue in the face... but the facts still remain that 95% or more of AA customers dont pay for first class fairs so they are all being hurt by this.

Take a look at the poll above if you want to see how people really feel>

Only 6.8% of people have a favorable opinion of this change...

Over 40% say they will possibly switch airlines... or use other airlines if they are cheaper. And you have to remember these are avid fliers as they are on flyertalk.

And 7.1% say they are leaving... (thats more then are happy)

Thats a bad policy change if I have ever seen one.

Dave Noble

If I was to put any value to that poll, then I would see that 26% are no worse off, of which some gain - which is nowhere near the claim that it is bad for everyone

Whether the policy change is good or bad, will surely depend on how it impacts on profit - giving away less may be better than keeping that 7%

I will agree that most will be worse off, but that is not that same as the claim that nobody is better off that was being made

It may well be bad for you - being bad for you does not mean it is bad for AA

If it was so bad, then others that had changed to such a model would change back surely

One other scheme I use has earnings based on spend and due to fare types purchased, I do a lot better from that scheme than a competitor's mileage based scheme

Not just 1st class passngers gais - that was just an example - people buying medium priced tickets on short flights gain too

e.g. spend $300 on a 500 mile flight . As a base member would currently earn 500 miles, with 625 or 1000 miles when holding status. Under the new scheme, the base member earns 1500 miles with an EP member earning 3300 miles.

ashill

For the record, I voted in the "not happy, but sticking with AA/oneworld for now" camp. However, my opinion, for one, is not as negative as the vote might suggest. If it weren't for the reduced EQM earning on partners from 1.0 to 0.5 on most coach fares, I'd be in the favorable camp.

And, for the record, the change is still positive relative to what I expected before JonNYC leaked the first details of the changes. I expected from the moment of the merger that something like what became the 2015 EQP system (0.5-3.0 elite qualifying currency/mile flown depending on fare class) to be made permanent for all airlines. Effectively, that's what happened, except AA-marketed flights are better, with a floor of 1.0. So I'm not happy and may well not be able to requalify for Platinum this year or in general in the future, which may make me more of a free agent. But I'm also not hugely unhappy.

And the reality is that I have a young kid and therefore want to minimize my time in transit whether traveling with or without the kiddo. Being based in PHL, that doesn't leave me much choice, and I'm not unhappy enough with AA to go to great lengths to avoid them.

rasheed

The "catch up" game that AA has been in behind DL has benefited AA elites for the most part I think.

AA doesn't want to keep making "mistakes" and appearing to lag behind in these "innovations". I blame Wall Street for this thinking.

For the frequent flyer, you do have to look at what kind of product will be there for flyers next year. The TBD mistake is whether flyers make changes to other options (if any remain, RIP VX) or there is so much near blind loyalty to the AAdvantage program.

I'd like to see Citi or Barclay put more teeth in their massive upcoming miles purchases to guarantee certain amount of SAAver availability. That is the only partner category that I think AA has to listen to if consumers won't turn away from the program and what I feel to be more difficult AA-centric redemptions.

Sadly, I think companies will spend more because they do value the travel warriors and won't be against these domestic PE products. Otherwise, these employees will not play this travel game. For people who know Concur well, it is not difficult to get what you want.

This plan by AA and DL will work until the next economic downturn, then all of these add-ons will be free or removed again. I think UA is stuck (see recent pretty significant status bumps) because of IAH (oil and gas) among its other woes.

Rasheed

Fanjet

Do you seriously think that Horton would have "stood his ground" against Delta and United (and Southwest for that matter) while they were going to revenue based earnings and FF benefits more aligned with spend?? PLEASE!!

Also, the Parker bashers predicted that he would retreat from high O&D revenue hubs like LAX and JFK because he was more comfortable with the fortress hub set-ups like PHL and CLT. But it has been LAX and JFK which have seen the largest capacity increases since this merger. How odd.

Cofyknsult

True but I see the following scenario being gradually implemented: A merger of Gold and Platinum as hinted by the same RDM accrual announced for later this year, a second higher tier made of the present and 2016 qualifying EXPs (far more than up to 2015 qualification for 2016) and a Top Tier made of a yet unknown percentage of those EXPs who, in 2017 (or even 2016... it's not as if AA is alien to implementing changes without advance warning) will have satisfied more stringent requirements.

I believe that AA had to go through the 2016 transitional period simply because they have determined that the new top tier must include a X number of individuals and that, with the new EQM accrual rates which heavily favor Business and First Class passengers, they had no idea where the cutoff point would be. It is fair to assume that, after 6 months or maybe after 8 or 9, they will have a pretty good idea.

I expect the other shoe to drop at the same time the new RDM accrual rules are implemented and my only question is whether all those who qualify in 2016 for 2017 EXP will remain equal throughout 2017 or not.

THEN, what you said will remain true but will only apply to the new Top Tier.

I also believe that CK will remain an entirely different matter, as it is about people who either generate revenue by other passengers or project a certain image.

bosman

? Maybe I am misinterpreting your statement, but Gold and Platinum do not have the "same RDM accrual" under the new scheme; Gold gets 7 miles/$ while Platinum gets 8 (similar to both DL and UA schemes). And if those two levels don't merge, can AA really create additional tiers at the top end and keep all aligned with OW?

nrr

We are close to the midpoint of 2016. If a new tier for 2017 (based on 2016 flying) is going to be implemented, they shouldn't wait until Dec. 31, 2016 to tell us--we need time to do more flying.

Microwave

There's no need to keep tiers aligned with oneworld. British Airways used to have fewer published elite tiers than oneworld (lacking a Ruby tier for many years), and there are multiple oneworld airlines with multiple published Emerald tiers (LATAM, Qantas, JAL) as well as multiple airlines with unpublished tiers / programmes or tiers with obfuscated attainment thresholds that come with Emerald status (American Airlines, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Qantas). I'm probably missing some here too... the point being that direct parity with oneworld tiers is not requisite.

Cofyknsult

You are absolutely correct. I missed the 7/8. Apologies. Still, nothing prevents AA from gradually merging those tiers by closing the gap between benefits, e.g kicking Plats out of free MCE (with the introduction of PE, there will be a revolution there anyways...).

As to the the question posted above of how many tiers, FEWER tiers (like BA in the past) is less of a problem to manage than MORE tiers. Again excluding CK, I do not see adding a fifth tier (Base, Gold, Plat , EXP, Top) in the cards but I may be wrong.

akcae

Why? DL has Silver / Gold /Platinum / Diamond (and 360 but that's on top of DM). Silver maps to ST Elite, Gold/Plat/Dia map to ST Elite+. UA has Premier Silver/Gold/Plat/1K/GS. Silver maps to *A Silver, the rest to *A Gold. AA could introduce a fourth (or more) tiers and map them to OW Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald however they wish.

Cofyknsult

I am afraid THAT (though a worthy consideration) has never prevented any change without advance warning by any airline in any program...

SNA_Flyer

That's my feeling as well. Judging by what Delta and United are doing, and if AA follows, there will likely be far less value for top-tier flyers staying loyal in the coming years. Probably enough to tip the scales in favor of just flying best schedule/price.

travelinmanS

It's already reached this point for me. I've got a trip coming up where I'm using AA for Pvg-Lax RT because the ticket was $2500 in C but my domestic flights during my time in the states are on DL and UA. 3 separate segments, all booked in First. Thanks to aggressive first pricing my entire trip from China to California to Texas and back is costing me $3100 all in biz or first.
Next time I need to fly to the states I'll again book the cheapest PVG-LAX (usually AA but sometimes MU, UA or DL) and buy cheap First tickets for domestic flying on whoever is cheapest.
I won't have to worry if my "upgrade" to MCE will clear or anything like that.
The airlines have changed the rules of the game and I've adapted. If we all became free agents you can bet your bottom dollar the FF programs would become incredibly more generous ASAP!