JonNYC

deleted

FWAAA

Nope, Seat Guru doesn't have accurate measurements for the AA 787. Both seats are 17.2 inches wide. When Seat Guru doesn't know, they simply make it up.

The seats are the same, 17.2 inches wide. A 9-across 787 doesn't work with anything but the standard narrow 17.2 inch seats. 8-across, like JAL, can use 18.5 inch seats (like the old AA 777 2-5-2 economy seats that are 18.5 inches wide).

The 77W doesn't really have "one row of MCE at 3-4-3 across," as AA defined MCE when it implemented MCE and when the 77W was introduced. MCE was located in rows 16-19. Even old management wasn't completely consistent, as row 16 is, of course, an infinite exit row, and old management didn't generally include exit rows in the MCE seat count.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPl...false&from=Nav

That link still says that 77Ws have 30 MCE seats. Under new management's expanded definition of MCE, someone should update that to reflect the new total of 48 MCE seats.

New management, of course, has expanded the definition of MCE to include bulkheads, some of which have extra legroom and some of which don't. But with that wave of the wand, it does permit AA to claim that the entire fleet is configured with MCE.

The 77Ws don't have just one row of 3-4-3 MCE, they have two under the new definition, rows 21 and 31/33, all of which are bulkheads and exit rows.

FWAAA

I'm not sure that everyone would agree that bulkhead rows offer "more legroom."

"What's the issue?" You've missed the entire point of this thread. The issue is that elites will no longer get 3-3-3 on any AA 777 (all 47 of the 772s and all 20 of the 77Ws, once the last three are delivered). AA will be configuring MCE on all 777s at 3-4-3, just like the back of economy. Elites won't have slightly wider MCE seats. Not just on "a few widebodies," but on every single AA 777, and that's 67 planes. THAT's the issue.

I was very surprised when the 77Ws debuted with wider MCE seats than the rest of economy. It ran counter to the "let's screw everybody on personal space because they really don't a choice" belief that's become common in the airline industry.

I was similarly surprised when the 772 reconfiguration details revealed that AA's plan was to do the same thing as with the 77Ws.

Wider seats in MCE would give AA a potential selling point over the competition (DL and UA) if/once they reconfigure their 777s to 3-4-3.

AA wasn't very consistent, however, since the 787s didn't come with 2-4-2 MCE. That was a bad omen for anyone who liked the wider 3-3-3 MCE seats on the 777s. And sure enough, the plan now is that all 777s and 787s will have 17 inch wide seats in all of economy, even MCE.

And now that every bulkhead and exit row is sold as MCE, and many of those seats aren't wider seats, someone in management probably asked "Why, again, are we spending money on 3-3-3 MCE seats when we're selling both 3-3-3 and 3-4-3 as MCE?" And never missing the opportunity to squeeze in a couple more economy seats, wider MCE was killed.

carlosdca

Forget about regular Y.

The big fuss is that MCE was 9 across, now it is 10 across.
It makes a difference, not only on the seat width but on the atmosphere of the cabin that definitely will feel and look more cramped.

Personally, it won't make a difference to me. Now that I am not EXP and have no SWUs and I Am not willing to upgrade with miles + copay....all economy seats any airline pretty much suck.

However, when before I may have favored AA to Europe via LHR just because of the MCE seats...now it does not make much difference.
And really, with the better MCE gone, there is no advantage of any kind to fly to Europe through LHR with AA now. And LHR itself is one to avoid as well (not the best to connect, so hectic and stressful).

Whichever airline gets me there with the better price and most direct itinerary will do.

ccengct

The 763 keeps looking better and better, from the perspective of passenger comfort in Y -- aside from no IFE.

rjw242

At least until those get "upgraded" to 8-across

dtremit

US has never flown a 319 with 8F.

carlosdca

Meh. The non-refursbished ones, sure.
The refurbished ones? Not so much.
The problem with the refurb 763, ironically, is that they do have those entertainment boxes under the seat in front of you. The seats look the same as 77W economy, not sure if same as 77W soon to dissapear MCE 18", or plain 77W MC 17". But they look the same, entertainment box under the seat included.

It bogles my mind why didn't they remove that box on the 763 when there is no IFE. Perhaps it just contains a DC-AC inverter? or what? ...why put that gigantic box down there.

That box makes a long trip really unbearable.

ccengct

Kidding aside, there aren't enough doors in the fuselage to meet the evac standard if AA wanted to do 3-2-3.

Djokison

3-2-3 isn't a very logical way to configure it. All the 8 across 767s are 2-4-2.
But yes, the 767 with overwing exits is limited by the evac requirements.

cmd320

I realize that. But get ready, because they're about to.

Longboater

Ok a few points on this. Its an industry trend towards ten abreast in Y on the 777. For 777s delivered in the last year and a half, ten abreast beat nine abreast by a more than two to one margin. Even ANA is moving towards ten abreast on their 77Ws and nine abreast on their Dreamliners. And this is up against JAL's nine abreast and eight abreast on the 77W and Dreamliner respectively. Eight abreast on the Dreamliner in Y is DEAD. Nine abreast on the 777 is going extinct. The 77X is being designed with ten abreast in mind. Keep in mind nine abreast was the initial norm for the 747 and eight abreast for the DC10 and L1011 (RIP to both). Also, the 777 was designed to allow ten abreast in Y and seven abreast in J using 747 J seats at the time. I will be shocked if UA doesn't end up moving to ten abreast on their 777s fleetwide. Their 777-200 fleet will be refitted to ten abreast starting next year.

While many on this board will blame the move to ten abreast MCE on Doug Parker and believe he's the worst CEO in history and ought to be in jail, there is a cost consideration with the 777s. The 777's CASM has been incredibly high ever since they entered the fleet in 1999. (Ever wonder why AA has performed so poorly in Asia?) Keep in mind before the merger and evil Doug Parker became CEO, there were plans to have a 777 configuration with just 30 J seats. Now, it appears two configurations will exist and a high J configuration will continue. (They were going to do a single 37 J configuration only but have reversed and are keeping 13 777s with 45 J. Still want to slam Parker?) The 37 J/252 Y configuration matches almost identically to what Delta did with their 777 fleet. The Dreamliner MCE is already the same width as what the 777 MCE seating will be. MCE will be consistent on the 772 and Dreamliner fleetwide.

The only hope we collectively have is airlines consider ways to widen seats in the rear in nine abreast Dreamliners and ten abreast 777s. BA will have 17.8 wide seats in Y on their 789s. This was based entirely off of complaints of the narrow seating. I, along with many on this board, will be interested to hear what passengers will have to say about these seats.

In regards to stuffing in seating and having too much capacity, keep in mind AA has indicated they will accelerate 767 retirements. Within a few years, we'll probably see fewer frequencies and larger aircraft on TATL and Deep South America flights. OK, rant over.

rwoman

DL remains 3-3-3 on the 777. They did remove some J seats and add in rows of Y seats...but did not go 10 across. Thankfully.

ThreeJulietTango

When/where was this announced?

If it was up to me, I wouldn't sell that row as MCE and standardize MCE on the 77W as offering both more legroom and a wider seat.

cmd320

Last year in the #goingforgreat announcement: http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease...r-improvements