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LAA: Airbus A321H / 321 ETOPS replacing LAX Boeing 757 to Hawaii (master thd)

Old Jun 28, 15, 2:49 pm
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Last edit by: JDiver
Airbus A321-200 ETOPS / 321H / A321H to Replace Hawaii Boeing 757-223s

A321 is the stretched version of the A320 family of aircraft. AA is the world's largest operator of A321s with 159 in service, 60 on order. These will replace Boeing 757-223s. The A321 is coded by most sources as "32B", which means any A321 with "Sharklets" blended wingtip devices. All A321s in fleet and order are technically 32B aircraft, as they all arrive "out of the box" with Sharklets, giving a range of 3,200 nm.

FWAAA: ...this will be a sub-fleet of 16 321H, presumably with the optional extra fuel tanks (total of 7,935 US gal).
321H: This particular two class A321 variant is ETOPS rated, initially deployed on West Coast-Hawai'i flights to replace the 757. Due to distance / fuel / load and some Hawai'i runway restrictions, some flights have been load and balance restricted / affected (LIH in particular has weight and cross-wind restrictions that can cause ticketed passengers to be "bumped" or occasionally diverted to HNL). These will ultimately be replaced by ETOPS rated Airbus A321neo aircraft.

321S: F16, XE35, Y130.

Seating is pretty much the same as the 321S for non-premium transcon service. See posts from TWA884 and FWAAA (#176 on) for IFE box and seat peculiarities.

The new leather "slimline" articulated "slider" seats include:
  • "Main Cabin Extra*" seats with extra leg room
  • In flight WiFi by GoGo (works only within 90 miles of USA mainland)
  • "Universal" plug 110 VAC and 5 VDC USB power at every seat
  • tilting 8.9" flatscreen IFE with AVOD at every seat** (complimentary in F) with hand controller
    . . . (IFE and power mounted on seat back in front of you)
*: Whilst seats 13 A-B-C are Main Cabin Extra, 13 D-E-F are standard (non-MCE) seats.

Current AA "domestic" WiFi by GoGo as on this aircraft relies on cellular telephony, which restricts operation to within ~90 miles of land.

**In Theaters Now movies cost $8, Best of the Big Screen (older movies ) for $6 per movie, a Premium Package for $5 that includes unlimited 150 network shows on demand and 300 albums, 20 games and audio books. Theres also a Disney option for $4 that includes a variety of kids movies, TV shows, games and music. Complimentary Programming offers "NBC Universal on American" and "American Airlines Radio" network.

Note about flight changes and seat numeration between 757 and 321H /S:
  • 757 F seats are AB, EF
  • A321H F seats are AC, DF
If you a re flying to Hawai'i on a 757:
  • 24 F seats with 52 MCE and 108 "Main Cabin" indicates a LAA 757-223.
  • 14 F recliner seats and no MCE other than exit row seats indicates a legacy US / America West 757-2S7 (these are being retired and replaced by 757-2B7)
  • 12 F seats with old "Envoy" seats and no MCE other than exit row seats indicates a legacy US Airways ("East") 757-2B7 (these are replacing the 757-2S7s to Hawaii)
See here for LUS 757-200 to / from Hawaii thread.

321H replacement of LUS Boeing 752s occurred after Sep 2016 Flight Operations Systems integration.

Updated Oct 2017 - JDiver
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LAA: Airbus A321H / 321 ETOPS replacing LAX Boeing 757 to Hawaii (master thd)

Old May 24, 15, 12:27 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
With 16 planes, it's very likely that AA will increase capacity above the current 12 daily flights from LAX, and some employees are even discussing the possible return of SFO-HNL. The current schedule of 12 flights is flown with a sub-fleet of 13 757s, leading to the speculation that there might be a few more daily flights.
The return of the SFO-HNL would be nice. Crossing my fingers... and toes!

Cheers.
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Old May 24, 15, 12:42 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
With 16 planes, it's very likely that AA will increase capacity above the current 12 daily flights from LAX, and some employees are even discussing the possible return of SFO-HNL. The current schedule of 12 flights is flown with a sub-fleet of 13 757s, leading to the speculation that there might be a few more daily flights.
Or those few extra frames will be designated to eventually replace the legacy US 757s flying PHX-Hawaii.
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Old May 24, 15, 12:58 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
Apologies! Hasn't seen that post-- thanks for the info!
No worries!

Originally Posted by WRCSolberg View Post
Or those few extra frames will be designated to eventually replace the legacy US 757s flying PHX-Hawaii.
Perhaps, but PHX is an additional 370 miles beyond LAX. These planes may have the range from LAX, but will they make landfall from PHX?

Word from employees is that the pmAA 757ERs will move to PHX as soon as the A321H fleet begins flying from LAX so that the pmUS PHX-Hawai'i 757s can be retired.

PHX currently features nine daily flights to the four islands, which is certainly far more capacity than the local traffic plus the logical PHX-only captive connections (the connections that make sense only from PHX). My guess is that most of the PHX-HA traffic moves to LAX and DFW by early 2017. DFW for most of the eastern USA pmUS connections currently flown over PHX and LAX for much of the western USA traffic (where pmAA already flies from LAX, like TUS, DEN, SLC, etc).

If it makes any sense for AA to again fly SFO-HNL, what about SAN-HNL?
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Old May 24, 15, 12:59 pm
  #34  
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

Originally Posted by WRCSolberg
Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
With 16 planes, it's very likely that AA will increase capacity above the current 12 daily flights from LAX, and some employees are even discussing the possible return of SFO-HNL. The current schedule of 12 flights is flown with a sub-fleet of 13 757s, leading to the speculation that there might be a few more daily flights.
Or those few extra frames will be designated to eventually replace the legacy US 757s flying PHX-Hawaii.
While anything is possible, A321s flying LIH-PHX and OGG-PHX would probably have even greater weight restrictions than the same aircraft flying LIH-LAX and OGG-LAX, given the extra 350-400 miles to PHX vs. LAX.
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Old May 24, 15, 1:11 pm
  #35  
 
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Those sharklets must really do the trick as AA will be the first airline to fly the Airbus A320 family to Hawai'i from the mainland. PHX-Hawai'i will have to wait for the NEO. Question is will these aircraft be fitted with satellite wifi as Delta is going to install satellite wifi on their planes flying to Hawai'i from LAX over the next few years?
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Old May 24, 15, 1:17 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by cmd320 View Post
Wow! As if the Hawaii market couldn't get any worse... Can an A321 even make it there in the winter?
The sharklets improve range to 3,200 nautical miles. Even in the winter, the A321s will be able to make LAX-LIH. The long runway helps and the winter will ease weight restrictions on LIH-LAX. The runway at LIH is being extended by 855 feet and will be complete by the fall of 2016. This should help on weight restrictions while OGG will still have issues.
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Old May 24, 15, 1:22 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Those sharklets must really do the trick as AA will be the first airline to fly the Airbus A320 family to Hawai'i from the mainland. PHX-Hawai'i will have to wait for the NEO. Question is will these aircraft be fitted with satellite wifi as Delta is going to install satellite wifi on their planes flying to Hawai'i from LAX over the next few years?
This. The main problem these days with overwater flights isn't lack of IFE; it's lack of wifi.

The 757s ex-Hawaii are reasonably comfortable in MCE and OK in first; the new A321s should be better in first but the slimline seats may end up excruciating in coach.
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Old May 24, 15, 1:53 pm
  #38  
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As I've just found, AA doesn't seem to be mapping seats across to the new config for the A321's.
They are A-B / E-F and so the D seats don't map. You have to go a choose your seat on the new config.
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Old May 24, 15, 1:56 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
Sorry to take this off topic! BA operates LCY-JFK and back with a pair of A318s. I doubt AA will be buying any, the only reason BA has them is the runway at LCY is too short to handle any larger aircraft. My point was that small aircraft do operate long legs.
Okay, got it. I was asking as though BA has a very few, AA have no A318s.

I'm aware of the LCY flights - light loads, technical / preclearance at SNN on the westbound sector. You're right - I dont see. aA going for A318s among the Airbus family aircraft coming. I can also see the attractivess of the limited but lucrative LCY-JFK market.

AA has made a small mess with the "32B" designator, since this merely indicates a Sharklets equipped aircraft and both A321S and A321T AA has are 32Bs, AFAIK. The Sharklets seem to have proved their ROI, much as the APB blended winglets with no sexy name have.
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Old May 24, 15, 2:17 pm
  #40  
 
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I don't understand — if the A321s are at the edge of their capabilities, and require payload restrictions, why not just use (a subfleet of) 737s instead?
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Old May 24, 15, 2:19 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by jamespvg View Post
I don't understand if the A321s are at the edge of their capabilities, and require payload restrictions, why not just use (a subfleet of) 737s instead?
Or a 767/a33x. If there are restrictions that have to be put in place (along with the rumored increased frequency), then that tells me that there is likely enough demand to support a few widebody flights. Maybe not at the increased frequency, but the demand is probably there for a near even 757 swap
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Old May 24, 15, 2:21 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by Markie View Post
As I've just found, AA doesn't seem to be mapping seats across to the new config for the A321's.
They are A-B / E-F and so the D seats don't map. You have to go a choose your seat on the new config.
EF shows the seatmaps as hit/miss at the moment. Some show correct F, some show correct Y, and others still show Equip Change in Progress. I guess it will take some time for the systems to get all sync'd up for this change of AC.

Cheers.
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Old May 24, 15, 2:59 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by msv777 View Post
...I guess it will take some time for the systems to get all sync'd up for this change of AC.
As always.
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Old May 24, 15, 3:07 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jamespvg View Post
I don't understand — if the A321s are at the edge of their capabilities, and require payload restrictions, why not just use (a subfleet of) 737s instead?
IMO a good question. AS has carved out a number of mainland - islands routes with 738 ETOPS subfleet and I've never seen one go out with a number of empty seats.

A321 extended range: 3,000 mm / 3,452 mi (181 pax)
B738 (wl) - 3,115 nm / 3,584 mi (160 pax)
B757 (wl) - 4,100 nmi (7,600 km) with winglets (184 pax)

From To Distance
LAX-OGG 2,160 nm
LAX-HNL 2,221 nm
LAX-LIH 2,272 nm

PHX-OGG 2,427 nm
PHX-HNL 2,535 nm
PHX-LIH 2,589 nm

Chuck in the newest ETOPS required reserves and... it's 757-223ER hot rod.

Last edited by JDiver; May 24, 15 at 3:39 pm
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Old May 24, 15, 3:11 pm
  #45  
 
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Really hoping they do satellite based Internet on these. If they are going to be a dedicated overwater subfleet it would make a lot of sense. I visit friends on Kauai a few times a year and it would be nice to be able to get work done during this long flight.
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