Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Feb 8, 2019, 6:27 pm
#646
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 55
I am a newbie in the AA Forum. I have booked AA 75, ORD-HNL for Christmas (I plan ahead) for my annual trip home. I am in F. Is Seat 5L a decent one to have? My research in this forum indicates it is a good choice but I understand there is just one window. I admit I like to look out the window on the approach into HNL. Thank you.
Feb 8, 2019, 7:15 pm
#647
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
I am a newbie in the AA Forum. I have booked AA 75, ORD-HNL for Christmas (I plan ahead) for my annual trip home. I am in F. Is Seat 5L a decent one to have? My research in this forum indicates it is a good choice but I understand there is just one window. I admit I like to look out the window on the approach into HNL. Thank you.
Feb 11, 2019, 2:50 am
#651
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
I was advised AA are not selling more than 5 rows in business due to range update. So hopefully means you will not get bumped. If you go for row 6 or 7 and the equipment is changed morning of departure when it goes to airport control, then you run the risk of being given an undesirable seat in forward cabin.
Feb 11, 2019, 4:07 am
#652
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
I was advised AA are not selling more than 5 rows in business due to range update. So hopefully means you will not get bumped. If you go for row 6 or 7 and the equipment is changed morning of departure when it goes to airport control, then you run the risk of being given an undesirable seat in forward cabin.
Feb 11, 2019, 4:32 am
#653
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
There is a rolling upgrade in process. Therefore as with Business Class sloped seats, First Class Double Seating and other upgrades there is a period of time when some of the fleet is upgraded and some is not. Therefore changing the map to the new layout would be wrong in cases where equipment that has not been upgraded is on the flight. This affects all airlines when they upgrade cabins as they do not have the extra capacity to take a complete fleet out of service and wait whilst they are upgraded. Economics I am afraid. Take row 6 and check every few days is my advice. Then you can use one of the sites like flight stats to see where your plane is a day or so out and see the tail number. On here people posts which ones have been upgraded. If you look at the flight before yours for the equipment, if that map changes go in ad change your seat if you can. Bear in mind due to operational reasons the aircraft can still be changed at the airport should flights be delayed, equipment going tech or a number of other reasons. I am sure for all of us concerned about Business disappearing, there will be Coach pax hoping to get Premium Coach seating who will be complaining if the map changes to new but they still get the old layout. Best of Luck. I am flying in April so taking no chances and booking at the front. Worthy of note some flights are now moving to 787 9. Not sure if that is solely to do with load or if that is to enable a faster upgrade plan. The biggest losers are folks trying to upgrade to business with only 20 seats, though I have a horrible feeling AA will follow BA and stop Discount or non Premium Economy to Business Upgrades. THat was why BA introduced PE in the first place.
Feb 11, 2019, 5:35 am
#654
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 141
This is EXACTLY why it’s just a matter of time till internationally Delta and United are eventually going to be way ahead of AA. As Polaris and Delta 1 roll out completely their fleets will avoid the guessing game of “which seat am I getting” and just be able to book a damn flight without worrying about whether this is a good experience or a bad one. The moment I have an option to fly an airline that provides a CONSISTENT hard product my last remaining flights with AA will occur.
This thread just summarizes how Dougie is a completely detached moron devoid of any basic common sense. Mind blowing to me how much time one has to spend just to figure out what hard producf they will have, especially when the cost of J has sky rocketed.
Rant over.
Cheers,
TG
This thread just summarizes how Dougie is a completely detached moron devoid of any basic common sense. Mind blowing to me how much time one has to spend just to figure out what hard producf they will have, especially when the cost of J has sky rocketed.
Rant over.
Cheers,
TG
No; while it’s true cabin crew and passengers can’t lower the partitions, the problem is there’s no SOP for maintenance, so they’ll adjust the partitions as they see fit - usually up one row, down the next. One can’t count on the configurations.
AA promised a long time ago they’d fix the partition and the “Motion over the ocean” attached-at-the-head seat-induced motion, but: Zodiac is the designer-manufacturer. AA sued them. Who’s going to engineer and modify the “orphan” Zodiac seats and spend the time to shepherd it all through the FAA to get the required STC? It’s not cheap, and certainly Zodiac has no interest - and I’ll bet the beAAn counters don’t want to spend American’s money either.
They’re removing minicabin seats to make room for Premium Economy. That’s the only reason. AA is sticking with the Zodiac seats in the 772 subfleet of 19 and the soon-to-be subfleet of 20 788s, apparently. (I believe the remaining 22 788s will be delivered “out of the box” with Premium Economy and most likely B/E Aerospace (now Rockwell Collins) Super Diamond seats.
AA promised a long time ago they’d fix the partition and the “Motion over the ocean” attached-at-the-head seat-induced motion, but: Zodiac is the designer-manufacturer. AA sued them. Who’s going to engineer and modify the “orphan” Zodiac seats and spend the time to shepherd it all through the FAA to get the required STC? It’s not cheap, and certainly Zodiac has no interest - and I’ll bet the beAAn counters don’t want to spend American’s money either.
They’re removing minicabin seats to make room for Premium Economy. That’s the only reason. AA is sticking with the Zodiac seats in the 772 subfleet of 19 and the soon-to-be subfleet of 20 788s, apparently. (I believe the remaining 22 788s will be delivered “out of the box” with Premium Economy and most likely B/E Aerospace (now Rockwell Collins) Super Diamond seats.
Last edited by travelgeek1197; Feb 12, 2019 at 6:58 am
Feb 11, 2019, 5:48 am
#655
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
This is EXACTLY why it’s just a matter of time till internationally Delta and United are eventually going to be way ahead of AA. As Polaris and Delta 1 roll out completely their fleets will avoid the guessing game of “which seat am I getting” and just be able to book a damn flight without worrying about whether this is a good experience or a bad one. The moment I have an option to fly that provides a CONSISTENT hard product my last remaining flights with AA will occur.
This threads just just summarize how Dougie is a completely detached moron devoid of any basic common sense. Mind blowing to me how much time one has to spend just to figure out what hard prosuctbtheh will have, especially when the cost of J has sky rocketed.
Rant over.
Cheers,
TG
This threads just just summarize how Dougie is a completely detached moron devoid of any basic common sense. Mind blowing to me how much time one has to spend just to figure out what hard prosuctbtheh will have, especially when the cost of J has sky rocketed.
Rant over.
Cheers,
TG
There are always upgrade issues when things change. Remember the BA New First debacle where they ended up cancelling a number and it tooks months longer than planned with no diea what you would get?
For me it would be AA first even with the wobbly seats on the 787, then Delta but no way would I fly long haul on United any more. Gave up my 100K after many many bad experiences and no one gave a monkeys. Not saying there is not a need for communication to the Suite to improve, as the best accountants in the world will not save you if your consumer hate you, but there is more right than wrong at the moment. I particularly like the new fleet and the new routes. (Still can dream for some 748i's but Hell would need a Polar Vortex for that to happen.) Must be a first me defending AA management.
Feb 11, 2019, 8:57 am
#656
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Seven 788s have been converted or are in the shop at PAE for refitting (out of 22 788s). Practically, as N800AN was the test / trial article last year, it means AA is moving quickly on this retrofit of PE (and concomitant reduction of Business seats). For once, it looks like a stated deadline (June) will be met, and it has been reported that AA is only selling 20 Business seats on this aircraft.
I’d strongly recommend avoiding booking a seat in the row 6 or 7 mini-cabin. Even if the older aircraft version shows as one’s flight, an equipment change from a 28 to 20 seat cabin could occur - and the odds are increasing that could happen. Reference threads:
Boeing 787-8 / 788 Premium Economy / PE / PEY progress and seat info
AA limits 787-8 / 788 Business seat sales to 20 (One Mile at a Time)
I’d strongly recommend avoiding booking a seat in the row 6 or 7 mini-cabin. Even if the older aircraft version shows as one’s flight, an equipment change from a 28 to 20 seat cabin could occur - and the odds are increasing that could happen. Reference threads:
Boeing 787-8 / 788 Premium Economy / PE / PEY progress and seat info
AA limits 787-8 / 788 Business seat sales to 20 (One Mile at a Time)
Last edited by JDiver; Feb 11, 2019 at 9:04 am
Feb 27, 2019, 6:49 am
#658
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
OR, I can paste them here, since I keep a running total:
N800AN - 20JW
N812AA - 20JW
N810AN - 20JW
N809AA - 20JW
N802AN - 20JW
N806AA - 20JW
N803AL - 20JW
N811AB - 20JW
N805AN - to KPAE on 20 Feb
N804AN - to KPAE on 23 Feb
Feb 27, 2019, 8:17 am
#659
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
In the wiki on this thread: Boeing 787-8 / 788 Premium Economy / PE / PEY progress and seat info
OR, I can paste them here, since I keep a running total:
N800AN - 20JW
N812AA - 20JW
N810AN - 20JW
N809AA - 20JW
N802AN - 20JW
N806AA - 20JW
N803AL - 20JW
N811AB - 20JW
N805AN - to KPAE on 20 Feb
N804AN - to KPAE on 23 Feb
OR, I can paste them here, since I keep a running total:
N800AN - 20JW
N812AA - 20JW
N810AN - 20JW
N809AA - 20JW
N802AN - 20JW
N806AA - 20JW
N803AL - 20JW
N811AB - 20JW
N805AN - to KPAE on 20 Feb
N804AN - to KPAE on 23 Feb
>>>
Much appreciated, thanks
Mar 3, 2019, 3:10 am
#660
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
My (empty) PEK-DFW Flight tomorrow has the mini cabin still assigned to the aircraft. I went from 5A to 6A.
Is there any chance it’s an aircraft that does in fact have the old configuration?
Is there any chance it’s an aircraft that does in fact have the old configuration?