Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Oct 18, 2018, 9:36 pm
#556
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
N811AB (the 788 that went to SAT) has been there 21 days now. N800AN (the one 788 to be retrofitted down to 20J seats at PAE so far) took 22 days. If they're doing retrofits at SAT, I'd think the first one there would take about as long as the first one at PAE, so would see it back to DFW or ORD in a few days. That said, N811AB took a 2 1/2 hour cruise around the skies of Texas on Tuesday. Doesn't look like they did that for N800AN, so makes me lean towards thinking it's there for something besides the retrofit.
I hope you’re right, and the article I mentioned a few days ago pans out. If they were doing one and then holding until January, that would be good. Was looking forward to two last trips in the mini-cabin, and if there is just one frame converted through the end of the year, I’ll take those odds.
If PAE is busy cranking out the remaining 772’s, then it seems plausible at least.
Oct 19, 2018, 10:56 am
#557
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: RBK
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 128
Though the common options are listed in the Wikipost, there’s no rhyme or reason, and certainly no consistency, on how a flyer will find the center privacy partitions fixed into place.
AA has an opportunity here as they refit the aircraft. We can only hope these might be fixed sooner rather than later, along with the “Motion over the ocean”.
AA has an opportunity here as they refit the aircraft. We can only hope these might be fixed sooner rather than later, along with the “Motion over the ocean”.
Oct 22, 2018, 10:04 am
#558
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Just flew ORD-DFW.
Forward seat dividers fixed in UP position. Rear-facing seat dividers in DOWN position. Passengers tried.....they won't budge.
Happy I switched from 6L to 5L. There's no aisle traffic in that forward cabin.
Forward seat dividers fixed in UP position. Rear-facing seat dividers in DOWN position. Passengers tried.....they won't budge.
Happy I switched from 6L to 5L. There's no aisle traffic in that forward cabin.
Oct 22, 2018, 10:08 am
#559
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott BonVoy Titanium Elite, Marriott LT Plat.
Posts: 1,717
As an FYI, the mini cabin is rows 6 and 7. Rows 1-5 are in the larger business cabin.
I believe the seat movement is still an issue. I tend to sit in the unconnected seats in the mini cabin so I can’t say for sure. With that said, your flight isn’t that long so I wouldn’t worry much about the connected seats. It’s a bigger deal when trying to sleep.
Oct 22, 2018, 10:37 am
#560
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Like you, I tend to snag a window seat in the J mini-cabin. however, for my flight next week it's the 789 and I'm seated in window. Will be first time in this setting and wanted to know ahead if there's this seat issue being connected to be concerned about. DFW-SCL-DFW. Night flights and am certain I am gonna want to sleep at some point.
Dreamliner 787-9 / 789: Business (B/E Super Diamond) Seat, Service (master thd)
Oct 22, 2018, 12:26 pm
#561
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
Update on N811AB:
Took an apparent test hop SAT->SAT for a little over an hour, and then flew from SAT to ORD on 10/21, arriving at 20:13.
Currently scheduled to fly ORD-LHR-ORD on 10/22-10/23, and ORD-CDG-ORD 10/23-10/24.
Pulling up the seat map for today's flight to LHR (AA86) shows 27 of 28 J seats occupied, with 7D being the only seat available.
LHR-ORD (AA47 on 10/23) shows 4 of 28 seats available (1H, 5D, 7A and 6L.)
ORD to CDG (AA150 on 10/23) shows 4 of 28 available (5D, 5H, 7D, 7H.)
CDG to ORD (AA151 on 10/24) shows 3 of 28 available (1A, 7D, 6L.)
My best guess, by looking at N800AN's seatmap for its flight from ORD-LHR tonight, is that N811AB was not refit, and was at SAT for maintenance/other things.
Will do a quick lookup for the other 18 tails to see if any are scheduled for PAE in the next few days, but I'm guessing there aren't.
Took an apparent test hop SAT->SAT for a little over an hour, and then flew from SAT to ORD on 10/21, arriving at 20:13.
Currently scheduled to fly ORD-LHR-ORD on 10/22-10/23, and ORD-CDG-ORD 10/23-10/24.
Pulling up the seat map for today's flight to LHR (AA86) shows 27 of 28 J seats occupied, with 7D being the only seat available.
LHR-ORD (AA47 on 10/23) shows 4 of 28 seats available (1H, 5D, 7A and 6L.)
ORD to CDG (AA150 on 10/23) shows 4 of 28 available (5D, 5H, 7D, 7H.)
CDG to ORD (AA151 on 10/24) shows 3 of 28 available (1A, 7D, 6L.)
My best guess, by looking at N800AN's seatmap for its flight from ORD-LHR tonight, is that N811AB was not refit, and was at SAT for maintenance/other things.
Will do a quick lookup for the other 18 tails to see if any are scheduled for PAE in the next few days, but I'm guessing there aren't.
Oct 22, 2018, 12:52 pm
#562
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
OK, did a quick organizing and adding of a few bookmarks for easier checking down the road.
There are not any 788's currently scheduled for PAE. There are 19 which currently remain unmodified.
While noted that N811AB left SAT yesterday, N812AA flew ORD-SAT this morning (10/22) to take its place. Maintenance? Seat fixes? Both? Something different?
I don't have any idea as to the exact nature of their time in SAT, but whatever it is required that N811AB take two test flights. Could be maintenance, could be minor mods, whatever.
The one, lonely modified frame with 20J is arriving at ORD from Venice early this evening, and then on a double r/t to LHR over the next few days. (So heads up if you're on that route.
)
There are not any 788's currently scheduled for PAE. There are 19 which currently remain unmodified.
While noted that N811AB left SAT yesterday, N812AA flew ORD-SAT this morning (10/22) to take its place. Maintenance? Seat fixes? Both? Something different?
I don't have any idea as to the exact nature of their time in SAT, but whatever it is required that N811AB take two test flights. Could be maintenance, could be minor mods, whatever.
The one, lonely modified frame with 20J is arriving at ORD from Venice early this evening, and then on a double r/t to LHR over the next few days. (So heads up if you're on that route.
)
Nov 6, 2018, 9:40 am
#563
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beverly Hills,CA, USA
Posts: 160
I'm scheduled to take a flight back in January from CDG-DFW-LAX, with first leg being on one of these 787 planes which I've never flown (I only fly a couple times a year)...I've accumulated a ton of AA points, and was able to get business class back (unfortunately using 110K points...we'll have to work on that!). Again, I don't fly much and usually coach.
I'm flying with my son, who would like to sit next to me...but he also likes a window seat! Right now I have 2A/3A....will he have eye contact? 6A and 6L are open, but thats sorta far from each other. First three rows have A,D,H all available.
Thanks for your advice and help in advance!
I'm flying with my son, who would like to sit next to me...but he also likes a window seat! Right now I have 2A/3A....will he have eye contact? 6A and 6L are open, but thats sorta far from each other. First three rows have A,D,H all available.
Thanks for your advice and help in advance!
Nov 6, 2018, 1:37 pm
#565
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
I'm scheduled to take a flight back in January from CDG-DFW-LAX, with first leg being on one of these 787 planes which I've never flown (I only fly a couple times a year)...I've accumulated a ton of AA points, and was able to get business class back (unfortunately using 110K points...we'll have to work on that!). Again, I don't fly much and usually coach.
I'm flying with my son, who would like to sit next to me...but he also likes a window seat! Right now I have 2A/3A....will he have eye contact? 6A and 6L are open, but thats sorta far from each other. First three rows have A,D,H all available.
Thanks for your advice and help in advance!
I'm flying with my son, who would like to sit next to me...but he also likes a window seat! Right now I have 2A/3A....will he have eye contact? 6A and 6L are open, but thats sorta far from each other. First three rows have A,D,H all available.
Thanks for your advice and help in advance!
When I take the wife along on trips, I always go for the single row with her right behind me. It's much easier in many aspects, including when it's time to get off the plane as you're not waiting for one another.
Nov 28, 2018, 10:18 am
#566
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Chicago
Programs: AAdvantage EXP | United Silver | HH Diamond | Bonvoy Platinum | Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 718
Flying with my partner and we currently have 7D and 7H. Wondering if 4&5L would be a better option. Wondering what is less disruptive - being right by the galley that separates the mini-cabin or at the end of the business cabin by coach. Thoughts?
Nov 29, 2018, 6:56 am
#567
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PHL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, AAdvantage Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 263
I'm flying with my wife on this plane, and the unpredictability of the partition being up-or-down is ridiculous.
I have nothing of value to add - just general whining. I'll provide a datapoint afterwards about the situation in 3D/3H from ORD-SFO.
I have nothing of value to add - just general whining. I'll provide a datapoint afterwards about the situation in 3D/3H from ORD-SFO.
Nov 29, 2018, 7:47 am
#568
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: Non-Affiliated
Posts: 7,430
Nov 29, 2018, 8:47 am
#569
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVP100K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,215
Have 788 and 789 in my upcoming itineraries.
Just regarding the 788, what’s the general consensus on the 788? That the rear facing window seats in the mini cabin are best? I think I remember 6A being terrifically private and comfortable. Or is the mini cabin too noisy?
Just regarding the 788, what’s the general consensus on the 788? That the rear facing window seats in the mini cabin are best? I think I remember 6A being terrifically private and comfortable. Or is the mini cabin too noisy?
Nov 29, 2018, 8:58 am
#570
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
Today, 6A/L are the gems as they offer a tick more privacy and are not connected to another seat. That will change in January as the 788’s are refitted for PE and the mini cabin is removed. If booking flights in February or later, don’t pick a seat in the mini cabin.