Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Jan 14, 2020, 9:09 am
#751
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Based out of MAN; LON/NYC regular
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Platinum Amb, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 214
Is it reasonable to say that on a daytime flight 2L is a decent seat? I'm flying MAN-PHL shortly before the route gets relegated to a 767, and thinking that the increased shoulder width and better window availability compared to 5A/L is a worthwhile tradeoff for a little bit of movement from 1L? If I was flying this overnight then absolutely nothing would convince me to take one of the wobbly seats!
Both seatguru and AA's online seat picker imply it's just the 1, but there are 2 at the front of Premium Economy which might serve as overspill from Business I guess?
Both seatguru and AA's online seat picker imply it's just the 1, but there are 2 at the front of Premium Economy which might serve as overspill from Business I guess?
Last edited by Joeykins; Jan 14, 2020 at 9:14 am
Jan 14, 2020, 9:33 am
#752
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
My vumoqu (sister’s son, Fijian) just flew in a Zodiac equipped 787-8 and indicates the seats in at last that ship still suffer from induced motion over the ocean.
There’s no implication in SeatGuru there’s one lav for J
, there’s one lav up forward for J, but there are two lavs in the emergency exit area between Business and Premium Economy that are available to Business passengers.
Below: SeatGuru rendition
There’s no implication in SeatGuru there’s one lav for J
, there’s one lav up forward for J, but there are two lavs in the emergency exit area between Business and Premium Economy that are available to Business passengers.Below: SeatGuru rendition
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 14, 2020 at 9:39 am
Jan 14, 2020, 9:02 pm
#753
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
My vumoqu (sister’s son, Fijian) just flew in a Zodiac equipped 787-8 and indicates the seats in at last that ship still suffer from induced motion over the ocean.
There’s no implication in SeatGuru there’s one lav for J, there’s one lav up forward for J, but there are two lavs in the emergency exit area between Business and Premium Economy that are available to Business passengers.
Below: SeatGuru rendition
There’s no implication in SeatGuru there’s one lav for J
, there’s one lav up forward for J, but there are two lavs in the emergency exit area between Business and Premium Economy that are available to Business passengers.Below: SeatGuru rendition
Jan 15, 2020, 12:59 am
#754
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
I Just flew 7 788 flights in Business/First (other was 789. There is one lavatory at front and two at rear of business cabin. In reality Flight Attendants try to get Pax to use the rear 2 as the front lavatory is used by the flight deck and numerous 787-8 flights fly with extra pilot (3 +1 on most of my flights). Luckily as I have a disability they were understanding of my need to use the front one as it was much closer. The two that are shared at the rear of cabin with PE are a result of the downgrading of the business mini cabin to PE. It will be interesting to see how new 788’s will be laid out to avoid the current confusion.
Jan 15, 2020, 1:46 am
#755
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 789
Given the pressure BA is applying for commonality (putting 777's onto LHR-ORD for example), it is possible AA could opt for a similar layout to BA. With the front and mini Business Class cabins, removal of coach from the next caibn and replacement with PE. This would allow for more Business sales and more PE Sales at the expense of Coach. This could be very useful for routes with high levels of Business flyers that 787's are being used on, e.g. LHR-ORD-LHR Late flights and some Asian flights. Who knows but I think a common layout between BA and AA would appeal, particularly now BA are abandoning their rear facing seating in Business.
Dec 5, 2020, 3:54 pm
#756
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: EZE
Programs: UA Gold,Delta Gold Bonvoy Titanium Elite, HH Diamond , AA Platinum, EENational, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,547
A recent trip on AA’s 787-8 with Concept D seats and service offered from ORD-DFW
Key takeaways
- if your 5 foot 11 or taller this seat is difficult to sleep given how narrow the foot well is.
- rear facing seat I had didn’t shake
- only beverages ( non and alcoholic offered on request ). I think this should be an exception route, at least for the wide body flight that goes daily from ORD-DFW-ORD, where you get a sandwich or at least a cheese plate. So manage your expectations and eat before hand.
Key takeaways
- if your 5 foot 11 or taller this seat is difficult to sleep given how narrow the foot well is.
- rear facing seat I had didn’t shake
- only beverages ( non and alcoholic offered on request ). I think this should be an exception route, at least for the wide body flight that goes daily from ORD-DFW-ORD, where you get a sandwich or at least a cheese plate. So manage your expectations and eat before hand.
Dec 5, 2020, 5:26 pm
#757
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 2,203
Why should it be an exception market? What competition is driving this?
A recent trip on AA’s 787-8 with Concept D seats and service offered from ORD-DFW
Key takeaways
- if your 5 foot 11 or taller this seat is difficult to sleep given how narrow the foot well is.
- rear facing seat I had didn’t shake
- only beverages ( non and alcoholic offered on request ). I think this should be an exception route, at least for the wide body flight that goes daily from ORD-DFW-ORD, where you get a sandwich or at least a cheese plate. So manage your expectations and eat before hand.
https://youtu.be/iflmRGAgrVs
Key takeaways
- if your 5 foot 11 or taller this seat is difficult to sleep given how narrow the foot well is.
- rear facing seat I had didn’t shake
- only beverages ( non and alcoholic offered on request ). I think this should be an exception route, at least for the wide body flight that goes daily from ORD-DFW-ORD, where you get a sandwich or at least a cheese plate. So manage your expectations and eat before hand.
https://youtu.be/iflmRGAgrVs
Dec 5, 2020, 7:58 pm
#758
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: EZE
Programs: UA Gold,Delta Gold Bonvoy Titanium Elite, HH Diamond , AA Platinum, EENational, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,547
I think the fact that they have been running the 787-8 continuously on this route as far as I know through the pandemic and not down gauged it. My flight was fairly full in J and economy was 95% full. I have also seen reports in another thread where they were given the cheese plate on this route. In a way AA in my opinion has been the least draconian with cuts to food service during the pandemic ( look at premium transcontinental offerings between AA,DL,and UA ). So while competition on this route wouldn’t be the key driver I do think making this an exception market goes a long way in getting back to a sense of normalcy and generating good will amongst those flying on AA. At least for me I have flown AA more than any other airline due to price,schedule, and the ability to get on a wide body on select routes ( yes I know that’s a small subset of the flying public.
Dec 6, 2020, 8:03 pm
#759
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
I am looking to book a MIA-BCN flight with my wife next summer and it looks like the 787-8 and the Zodiac config is a real possibility. What seat combo do you recommend we choose to make the best out of it?
Last edited by Galeface; Dec 6, 2020 at 8:13 pm
Dec 6, 2020, 8:21 pm
#760
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: AA PPro
Posts: 632
Welcome to FlyerTalk!
Dec 6, 2020, 8:52 pm
#761
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 2
If your flight is on a 787-8 it would be more like a certainty than a real possibility, AA has I think only 2 Super Diamond equipped aircraft at this point. That said 1 D&H are said to not be connected to the other seats and therefore lack the rocking. When traveling together the rear facing center seats actually place you quite close together, much more-so than the Super Diamond seats do. So if I were traveling as a couple on that aircraft I would choose 1D&H if available. Note those are rear facing but being in the center of the cabin I doubt you would feel much difference.
Welcome to FlyerTalk!
Welcome to FlyerTalk!
I read that 1D is often blocked for pilot rest but the seat chart doesn’t seem to show this for now. Fair to assume this won’t change last minute? Would hate to pick a good combination that gets reset at time of boarding. Someone was also saying this is only done on flights over 14 hours, Miami-Barcelona is 9 and change.
Other options I was considering is 1A/2A not that it would encourage much conversation but it’s a night flight on the way there, I’m just a little concerned by lack of privacy on 1D/H...maybe something odd about facing the whole cabin?
Dec 6, 2020, 9:24 pm
#762
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: AA PPro
Posts: 632
Thank you for the detailed response and the welcome!
I read that 1D is often blocked for pilot rest but the seat chart doesn’t seem to show this for now. Fair to assume this won’t change last minute? Would hate to pick a good combination that gets reset at time of boarding. Someone was also saying this is only done on flights over 14 hours, Miami-Barcelona is 9 and change.
Other options I was considering is 1A/2A not that it would encourage much conversation but it’s a night flight on the way there, I’m just a little concerned by lack of privacy on 1D/H...maybe something odd about facing the whole cabin?
I read that 1D is often blocked for pilot rest but the seat chart doesn’t seem to show this for now. Fair to assume this won’t change last minute? Would hate to pick a good combination that gets reset at time of boarding. Someone was also saying this is only done on flights over 14 hours, Miami-Barcelona is 9 and change.
Other options I was considering is 1A/2A not that it would encourage much conversation but it’s a night flight on the way there, I’m just a little concerned by lack of privacy on 1D/H...maybe something odd about facing the whole cabin?
This is the only photo of the concept D seats I have and it is from a 777. I think it will show the walls of these seats are quite high, so I don't think you are really going to see much of the whole cabin when in a seated position, especially when you lounge back. I do think this illustrates well how close together you will be sitting as compared to typical reverse herringbone seats.
777 Concept D rear facing center seats
Dec 7, 2020, 8:23 am
#763
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
Programs: AA CONCIERGE KEY & 1MM, HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 11,970
I think the fact that they have been running the 787-8 continuously on this route as far as I know through the pandemic and not down gauged it. My flight was fairly full in J and economy was 95% full. I have also seen reports in another thread where they were given the cheese plate on this route. In a way AA in my opinion has been the least draconian with cuts to food service during the pandemic ( look at premium transcontinental offerings between AA,DL,and UA ). So while competition on this route wouldn’t be the key driver I do think making this an exception market goes a long way in getting back to a sense of normalcy and generating good will amongst those flying on AA. At least for me I have flown AA more than any other airline due to price,schedule, and the ability to get on a wide body on select routes ( yes I know that’s a small subset of the flying public.
Dec 7, 2020, 11:01 am
#764
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: UA 1K and PP, AA PPro (3MM, former CK), Marriott Ambassador and LTT, Uber One
Posts: 1,346
Dec 31, 2020, 1:25 am
#765
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,158
But, Brandinho1, did your flight depart during meal hours? For exception routes, those are 5a-1:30p and 4p-8p. Particularly if it fell in the 1:30p-4p donut hole, that might have led to the impression that it wasn't an exception route.
AAExecPlatFlier, the competition driving this would be UA, right?