Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
May 15, 2015, 8:29 pm
#47
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NY
Programs: AA Plat 1MM, IC RA, HH Gold
Posts: 2,791
for delivering my chicken salad 0:54 after take off. (I had the moving map on and noted the time that it was delivered).Here is the response from AA, received less than 24 hours after I sent in my complaint:
"We also know that cabin comfort is very important to our customers. After all, most of the time on a flight is spent sitting. While we understand that individual impressions about the new seat will vary, we are disappointed to hear that you were not comfortable on your recent flight. We have shared your comments with our Cabin Design managers."
Last edited by RxCapt; May 15, 2015 at 9:44 pm Reason: add response from AA
May 16, 2015, 1:04 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA EXP (LT Plat 2MM), Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Plat, SPG Plat75, UA1K
Posts: 1,248
Sat in 7D this afternoon on 2334. No issue with mini-cabin feeling claustrophobic. Did not feel boxed in by the seat structure as others have mentioned. Only thing I did not. Like is you do wind up staring at the person in 7A (not optimal). Lots of little storage compartments - thought I would miss the little shoe compartment from the 77W but all was good. LOVE the custom seat control - much better IMHO than the 77W. Quietest takeoff on a somebody I have ever had. I can definitely see being on this bird for 15+ hours (even MCE SEEMED doable).
May 16, 2015, 6:08 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Park, Metropolis
Programs: AA LT PLT 3MM, Hilton/Marriott/SPG/Club Carlson GLD, IHG PLT
Posts: 4,608
Sat in 7D this afternoon on 2334. No issue with mini-cabin feeling claustrophobic. Did not feel boxed in by the seat structure as others have mentioned. Only thing I did not. Like is you do wind up staring at the person in 7A (not optimal). Lots of little storage compartments - thought I would miss the little shoe compartment from the 77W but all was good. LOVE the custom seat control - much better IMHO than the 77W. Quietest takeoff on a somebody I have ever had. I can definitely see being on this bird for 15+ hours (even MCE SEEMED doable).
May 16, 2015, 6:40 pm
#50
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: No longer loyal "over-entitled" 1K
Posts: 3,822
I wanted to wait a bit before posting the following comment because I really do appreciate American Airlines' efforts at fleet modernization and welcome the addition of fully flat-bed seats to the long haul and ultra-long haul aircraft. I assume I was the first revenue passenger in seat 1A on last Thursday's inaugural 788 flight, therefore the seat should not yet have been subject to passenger use and abuse. If you were buying a new car, the fit and finish have to be close to perfect or you would reject it. I realize the economic parameters surrounding a fleet modernization plan for an airline are vastly different than the purchase of a private automobile but I just can't get over the fit and finish of seat 1A before it had seen any revenue passengers. Is this the norm in seat manufacturing for the airlines? I really don't know the answer and would greatly appreciate all insights.
May 17, 2015, 10:37 am
#53
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PSP
Programs: AA Plat-2MM, Marriott Plat, former VX Gold forever
Posts: 117
I flew the Chicago turn yesterday (DFW-ORD -2L, ORD-DFW-7L) and overall really enjoyed the experience. A few observations:
The good:
From the moment you walk in, the cabin has a warm upscale feel. Entryway is much nicer than UA’s entrance into a galley.
Despite still learning the plane, the crew did a great service, especially considering the length of the flights. Although it didn’t happen on this flight, one FA mentioned that they sometimes forget about the mini-cabin. I’m sure that won’t be an issue as more become familiar with the plane. The pilots were especially excited to be flying this plane and the landing in ORD was the smoothest I have ever experienced.
It is VERY quiet up front (2L) but noticeably less quiet in the mini-cabin (7L) due to vibration, rattles, and wind/engine noise.
The walkup bar is actually a functional space to hang out in. Four of us ended up chatting there towards the end of the flight.
I didn’t actually notice the increased humidity until I was on my A321 flight home to SFO and I noticed how much drier the air was than on the 787.
The main cabin doesn’t look so bad empty
The mixed:
The entertainment system worked flawlessly except for the handheld keyboard. I used it briefly for chat and it was glitchy.
The seats. Rear facing (2L) was much more comfortable for me except for the rocking. I noticed it within a few minutes of sitting down. I was actually able to rock the seat by shifting my weight just slightly and I‘m a small guy. On this short day flight it wasn’t so much that the other person’s rocking bothered me as it was I didn’t want to move too much because of the rocking it causes for the attached seat. 7L (front facing) was solid and I wasn’t able to rock it at all with any of my movement. However, it was much less comfortable. For some reason my shoulder kept hitting the panel, the aisle armrest is at a strange angle, and the retracted shoulder harness bothered me until I put it behind the headrest. The storage is less convenient in the front facing seat.
I was able to position the seats into very comfortable positions for both sitting (started with zero gravity then raised the leg rest higher) and eating, and found out late in the flight that the headrest is manually movable.
Couple seating-I was flying solo, but in 2L I was pointed right towards 2H and we could talk a lot easier than the person he was traveling with in 2D. It’s probably best for couples to sit across the aisle from each other unless they don’t want to see or talk to each other during the flight.
The bad really has nothing to do with the plane, but this is the first time I’ve flown up front since the meal “improvements” and the food is still terrible.
The good:
From the moment you walk in, the cabin has a warm upscale feel. Entryway is much nicer than UA’s entrance into a galley.
Despite still learning the plane, the crew did a great service, especially considering the length of the flights. Although it didn’t happen on this flight, one FA mentioned that they sometimes forget about the mini-cabin. I’m sure that won’t be an issue as more become familiar with the plane. The pilots were especially excited to be flying this plane and the landing in ORD was the smoothest I have ever experienced.
It is VERY quiet up front (2L) but noticeably less quiet in the mini-cabin (7L) due to vibration, rattles, and wind/engine noise.
The walkup bar is actually a functional space to hang out in. Four of us ended up chatting there towards the end of the flight.
I didn’t actually notice the increased humidity until I was on my A321 flight home to SFO and I noticed how much drier the air was than on the 787.
The main cabin doesn’t look so bad empty
The mixed:
The entertainment system worked flawlessly except for the handheld keyboard. I used it briefly for chat and it was glitchy.
The seats. Rear facing (2L) was much more comfortable for me except for the rocking. I noticed it within a few minutes of sitting down. I was actually able to rock the seat by shifting my weight just slightly and I‘m a small guy. On this short day flight it wasn’t so much that the other person’s rocking bothered me as it was I didn’t want to move too much because of the rocking it causes for the attached seat. 7L (front facing) was solid and I wasn’t able to rock it at all with any of my movement. However, it was much less comfortable. For some reason my shoulder kept hitting the panel, the aisle armrest is at a strange angle, and the retracted shoulder harness bothered me until I put it behind the headrest. The storage is less convenient in the front facing seat.
I was able to position the seats into very comfortable positions for both sitting (started with zero gravity then raised the leg rest higher) and eating, and found out late in the flight that the headrest is manually movable.
Couple seating-I was flying solo, but in 2L I was pointed right towards 2H and we could talk a lot easier than the person he was traveling with in 2D. It’s probably best for couples to sit across the aisle from each other unless they don’t want to see or talk to each other during the flight.
The bad really has nothing to do with the plane, but this is the first time I’ve flown up front since the meal “improvements” and the food is still terrible.
May 17, 2015, 6:38 pm
#54
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
I flew the Chicago turn yesterday (DFW-ORD -2L, ORD-DFW-7L) and overall really enjoyed the experience. A few observations:
The good:
From the moment you walk in, the cabin has a warm upscale feel. Entryway is much nicer than UA’s entrance into a galley.
Despite still learning the plane, the crew did a great service, especially considering the length of the flights. Although it didn’t happen on this flight, one FA mentioned that they sometimes forget about the mini-cabin. I’m sure that won’t be an issue as more become familiar with the plane. The pilots were especially excited to be flying this plane and the landing in ORD was the smoothest I have ever experienced.
It is VERY quiet up front (2L) but noticeably less quiet in the mini-cabin (7L) due to vibration, rattles, and wind/engine noise.
The walkup bar is actually a functional space to hang out in. Four of us ended up chatting there towards the end of the flight.
I didn’t actually notice the increased humidity until I was on my A321 flight home to SFO and I noticed how much drier the air was than on the 787.
The main cabin doesn’t look so bad empty
The mixed:
The entertainment system worked flawlessly except for the handheld keyboard. I used it briefly for chat and it was glitchy.
The seats. Rear facing (2L) was much more comfortable for me except for the rocking. I noticed it within a few minutes of sitting down. I was actually able to rock the seat by shifting my weight just slightly and I‘m a small guy. On this short day flight it wasn’t so much that the other person’s rocking bothered me as it was I didn’t want to move too much because of the rocking it causes for the attached seat. 7L (front facing) was solid and I wasn’t able to rock it at all with any of my movement. However, it was much less comfortable. For some reason my shoulder kept hitting the panel, the aisle armrest is at a strange angle, and the retracted shoulder harness bothered me until I put it behind the headrest. The storage is less convenient in the front facing seat.
I was able to position the seats into very comfortable positions for both sitting (started with zero gravity then raised the leg rest higher) and eating, and found out late in the flight that the headrest is manually movable.
Couple seating-I was flying solo, but in 2L I was pointed right towards 2H and we could talk a lot easier than the person he was traveling with in 2D. It’s probably best for couples to sit across the aisle from each other unless they don’t want to see or talk to each other during the flight.
The bad really has nothing to do with the plane, but this is the first time I’ve flown up front since the meal “improvements” and the food is still terrible.
The good:
From the moment you walk in, the cabin has a warm upscale feel. Entryway is much nicer than UA’s entrance into a galley.
Despite still learning the plane, the crew did a great service, especially considering the length of the flights. Although it didn’t happen on this flight, one FA mentioned that they sometimes forget about the mini-cabin. I’m sure that won’t be an issue as more become familiar with the plane. The pilots were especially excited to be flying this plane and the landing in ORD was the smoothest I have ever experienced.
It is VERY quiet up front (2L) but noticeably less quiet in the mini-cabin (7L) due to vibration, rattles, and wind/engine noise.
The walkup bar is actually a functional space to hang out in. Four of us ended up chatting there towards the end of the flight.
I didn’t actually notice the increased humidity until I was on my A321 flight home to SFO and I noticed how much drier the air was than on the 787.
The main cabin doesn’t look so bad empty
The mixed:
The entertainment system worked flawlessly except for the handheld keyboard. I used it briefly for chat and it was glitchy.
The seats. Rear facing (2L) was much more comfortable for me except for the rocking. I noticed it within a few minutes of sitting down. I was actually able to rock the seat by shifting my weight just slightly and I‘m a small guy. On this short day flight it wasn’t so much that the other person’s rocking bothered me as it was I didn’t want to move too much because of the rocking it causes for the attached seat. 7L (front facing) was solid and I wasn’t able to rock it at all with any of my movement. However, it was much less comfortable. For some reason my shoulder kept hitting the panel, the aisle armrest is at a strange angle, and the retracted shoulder harness bothered me until I put it behind the headrest. The storage is less convenient in the front facing seat.
I was able to position the seats into very comfortable positions for both sitting (started with zero gravity then raised the leg rest higher) and eating, and found out late in the flight that the headrest is manually movable.
Couple seating-I was flying solo, but in 2L I was pointed right towards 2H and we could talk a lot easier than the person he was traveling with in 2D. It’s probably best for couples to sit across the aisle from each other unless they don’t want to see or talk to each other during the flight.
The bad really has nothing to do with the plane, but this is the first time I’ve flown up front since the meal “improvements” and the food is still terrible.
My seat was 3L and I found it to be decent. My biggest complaint was the shifting from my neighbor. I probably moved around than she did so I'm sure it was more annoying for her. For a 2 hour flight, no big deal but for a 13 hour trip to PEK it could become an issue. I wouldn't want to be "moving around on egg shells" hoping that I'm not disturbing my neighbor.
I too am a small person, so the seat length wasn't an issue. Those over 6' will find it tight.
If they can fix the seat shifting issue I wouldn't have a problem with this product on long hauls.
May 17, 2015, 6:43 pm
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
You must have never flown that A380. The 788 is VERY LOUD in comparison (and, before someone else points this out, the 777 is SCREAMING LOUD)!
Good to hear the good reviews on the seats except for being disturbed by the neighbor (wow, that's a huge one to go through acceptance, but hopefully fixable).
Good to hear the good reviews on the seats except for being disturbed by the neighbor (wow, that's a huge one to go through acceptance, but hopefully fixable).
May 18, 2015, 8:31 am
#56
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,384
I read about complaints about the outboard seats. Do the inboard seats have this issue as well where the accompanying seatmate's movements reverberate to your seat?
For example, are 2D and 3D subject to this issue as well? Or the design of the inner seats negates this?
For example, are 2D and 3D subject to this issue as well? Or the design of the inner seats negates this?
May 18, 2015, 8:48 am
#57
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Park, Metropolis
Programs: AA LT PLT 3MM, Hilton/Marriott/SPG/Club Carlson GLD, IHG PLT
Posts: 4,608
Inner seats as well, the only good ones are 1, however they do not have overhead storage bin, and need to share with your window passengers. 2 has the same problem with no overhead storage bin, and they tied to movement with 3.
May 18, 2015, 9:03 am
#59
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,384
I think the problem with 1D is that you are looking into the person in 1A. Is that right?
I also think it may be worse in the middle section. Because each setup is 4 seats connected to each other? So 2D, 2H, 3D, 3H are all connected. So if someone in 2H moves, all the other 3 persons can feel it?
I also think it may be worse in the middle section. Because each setup is 4 seats connected to each other? So 2D, 2H, 3D, 3H are all connected. So if someone in 2H moves, all the other 3 persons can feel it?