Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Oct 7, 2018, 10:34 pm
#541
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
There’s a 5% chance, unless they’re using BCN as the shakedown route to check the new configuration, in which case the odds are higher. If you want to improve the odds change your seat.
Oct 8, 2018, 8:04 am
#542
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AA EXP - 2.4 mm, Starwood PLT
Posts: 427
Great.. I am on a BCN ORD flight this week and have 6L. Nothing to choose from so I guess we shall just have wait and see ..
Oct 8, 2018, 12:15 pm
#543
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551
In reply to my own comment here, and in contrast to the current note in the wiki about the partitions, the 788 I was on from LHR-ORD last week had fwd facing down, aft facing up, and they couldn't be moved.
Oct 8, 2018, 3:47 pm
#544
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
AA has an opportunity here as they refit the aircraft. We can only hope these might be fixed sooner rather than later, along with the “Motion over the ocean”.
Oct 8, 2018, 8:35 pm
#545
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
Though the common options are listed in the Wikipost, there’s no rhyme or reason, and certainly no consistency, on how a flyer will find the center privacy partitions fixed into place.
AA has an opportunity here as they refit the aircraft. We can only hope these might be fixed sooner rather than later, along with the “Motion over the ocean”.
AA has an opportunity here as they refit the aircraft. We can only hope these might be fixed sooner rather than later, along with the “Motion over the ocean”.
Oct 10, 2018, 2:16 pm
#546
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
So I had a few minutes over the weekend to do a little digging into the refit schedule.
Ran across an article from last summer which discussed an updated the 788 refit schedule where one plane would be refit in late September, and the be placed in operation for shakedown and trial purposes to gather data. From there, the remaining planes would begin the process in early January.
From what has been found thus far on aircraft movement there has been only one plane sent up, which is (or was) running to BCN. I don’t believe the one sent to SAT was for a refit, so (to me, at least) it appears this article may have been correct.
If we fail to see another sent up for a good while, this could be the explanation.
Ran across an article from last summer which discussed an updated the 788 refit schedule where one plane would be refit in late September, and the be placed in operation for shakedown and trial purposes to gather data. From there, the remaining planes would begin the process in early January.
From what has been found thus far on aircraft movement there has been only one plane sent up, which is (or was) running to BCN. I don’t believe the one sent to SAT was for a refit, so (to me, at least) it appears this article may have been correct.
If we fail to see another sent up for a good while, this could be the explanation.
Oct 12, 2018, 2:58 pm
#547
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 92
Change now, in case of plane swaps
I just got burned. On ORD-LHR tomorrow and seat map showed my 6L seat existing until today. Now I'm in 1D. This is my first 787 flight so I was very much looking forward to a window. I've set up a seat alert but am not holding out hope.
If you're like me and don't fly business class often, don't take the chance. Change now.
Update 6 hours later: Both my coworker and I got called by AA about volunteering to move to another flight (we both had to turn it down since we are meeting a 3rd coworker). Don't think they were offering an incentive other than moving us to a non-stop flight (we start in DFW). They offered to downgrade my coworker to economy and refund the difference. On the bright side, a few people must have taken a reroute as I was able to move to a window seat. Woohoo!
If you're like me and don't fly business class often, don't take the chance. Change now.
Update 6 hours later: Both my coworker and I got called by AA about volunteering to move to another flight (we both had to turn it down since we are meeting a 3rd coworker). Don't think they were offering an incentive other than moving us to a non-stop flight (we start in DFW). They offered to downgrade my coworker to economy and refund the difference. On the bright side, a few people must have taken a reroute as I was able to move to a window seat. Woohoo!
Last edited by carla568; Oct 12, 2018 at 8:04 pm
Oct 17, 2018, 3:46 pm
#549
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 174
Going to be flying OFD-DFW during late Jan in biz class for first time; slated via 787-800. Reading through this thread seems the two main points of late are:
- The min-cabin aka row 5 and 6 of biz class are slated to go away during refit--therefore wisdom is in not being in those rows if you're risk averse to getting downgraded. That seems pretty cut and dried.
- There is the "seat instability due to partner movement" issue--noted on which seats are affected and which are not (there was a schematic somewhere). But did I read/hear that these sears were getting bracing or something like that? Wondering if this is still an issue or not.
Oct 17, 2018, 6:06 pm
#550
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 449
Going to be flying OFD-DFW during late Jan in biz class for first time; slated via 787-800. Reading through this thread seems the two main points of late are:
- The min-cabin aka row 5 and 6 of biz class are slated to go away during refit--therefore wisdom is in not being in those rows if you're risk averse to getting downgraded. That seems pretty cut and dried.
- There is the "seat instability due to partner movement" issue--noted on which seats are affected and which are not (there was a schematic somewhere). But did I read/hear that these sears were getting bracing or something like that? Wondering if this is still an issue or not.
I believe the seat movement is still an issue. I tend to sit in the unconnected seats in the mini cabin so I can’t say for sure. With that said, your flight isn’t that long so I wouldn’t worry much about the connected seats. It’s a bigger deal when trying to sleep.
Oct 18, 2018, 9:20 am
#551
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551
[*]There is the "seat instability due to partner movement" issue--noted on which seats are affected and which are not (there was a schematic somewhere). But did I read/hear that these sears were getting bracing or something like that? Wondering if this is still an issue or not.[/list]Thanks all.
Oct 18, 2018, 9:56 am
#552
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: bay area, ca
Programs: UA plat, , aa plat, marriott LT titanium
Posts: 4,833
Oct 18, 2018, 12:58 pm
#553
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 37
I'm glad I stumbled into this thread. Was able to secure some instant SWU upgrades to CDG for early December a few weeks ago (PHL-MIA-CDG-ORD-PHL) for a trip with my wife. The outbound MIA-CDG is on a 777-200 so it sounds like there is nothing to worry about, but the return CDG-ORD is on 788, we had originally booked 6A and 7A in the mini-cabin, but based on what I've read here with the retrofit, I just moved us up into 3A and 4A, with me taking row 4 because I've never flown in a rear-facing seat and thought it would be fun!
Oct 18, 2018, 1:55 pm
#554
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,107
@zzpitt Similar deal for me. I’m holding off to see how their process is going to go. Not 100% certain the second frame has been sent off for the refit. If it’s just the one frame through the end of the year, I’ll take the risk.
If they are moving the 788 refit to SAT, where a second frame headed a few weeks ago, and they keep rolling, then I’ll likely switch mine up as well. Although my outbound from ORD is mostly empty, my return through DFW is already mostly booked.
If they are moving the 788 refit to SAT, where a second frame headed a few weeks ago, and they keep rolling, then I’ll likely switch mine up as well. Although my outbound from ORD is mostly empty, my return through DFW is already mostly booked.
Oct 18, 2018, 6:27 pm
#555
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 75
@zzpitt Similar deal for me. I’m holding off to see how their process is going to go. Not 100% certain the second frame has been sent off for the refit. If it’s just the one frame through the end of the year, I’ll take the risk.
If they are moving the 788 refit to SAT, where a second frame headed a few weeks ago, and they keep rolling, then I’ll likely switch mine up as well. Although my outbound from ORD is mostly empty, my return through DFW is already mostly booked.
If they are moving the 788 refit to SAT, where a second frame headed a few weeks ago, and they keep rolling, then I’ll likely switch mine up as well. Although my outbound from ORD is mostly empty, my return through DFW is already mostly booked.