Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
May 10, 2015, 9:39 pm
#17
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Also, I also noticed these seats are somehow adjoined to your neighbors. In both seats, if someone rocked the seat next to me (standing up, sitting down, or leaning forward) my seat moved as well. It's quite noticeable. Major design flaw if you ask me......
Finally, several people had problems with the touch screen seat control shutting off and not working.
May 11, 2015, 5:31 am
#18
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Not too much and you are not allowed to keep items under the seat for take-off/landing.
http://www.friendlyskies.co/Trip-Pho...0395-imp-L.jpg
http://www.friendlyskies.co/Trip-Pho...0395-imp-L.jpg
Unless that barrier separating the area under the footrest from the rest is removable (which I doubt it is), I'll have to stay clear of AAs 787. No space for the dog there.
Too bad, I was really looking forward to the 787.
The refurbished 767s with the Thompson Vantage seats are much better in this regard. Here's to hoping they will stay in the fleet for a long time to come.
May 11, 2015, 11:27 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: LAX/ORD/HNL
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If I have a flight on the 788 I will definitely book seat 1A. I believe it is the most private seat in the J cabin.
As other posters have commented, the seat does feel a little “confining” with not much storage space on the floor. Yes, the rear facing seats seem to be a bit roomier than the front facing seats but the privacy of seat 1A (front facing) outweighs this factor for me. I was able to fully fall asleep on the inaugural flight last Thursday on my back and was very comfortable. The aisle armrest completely retracts giving you additional space although I kept it in the “up position” while I was snoozing (full disclosure - I'm a small guy and a larger person might not find the seat as accommodating). As AA-Flyer-SAN commented, when the person behind you adjusts their seat you do feel it in your seat as a sort of thump. I asked the gentleman sitting in 2A on the inaugural flight if he could feel it when I adjusted my seat and he replied that he had indeed noticed that. I imagine this could be a problem on a long haul flight if you are asleep and your neighbor decides to do some seat adjustment. Of the AA premium seats that I have actually experienced, this is my preference in order.
77W F > 777 F > 77W J > A321T F ≈ 788 J > NGBC seat on any aircraft
I have experienced neither the 77D J seat nor the 763 CIP J seat. Since the introduction of the A321T, I have only flown in F on transcons so I have not had the opportunity to try the A321T J seat.
As other posters have commented, the seat does feel a little “confining” with not much storage space on the floor. Yes, the rear facing seats seem to be a bit roomier than the front facing seats but the privacy of seat 1A (front facing) outweighs this factor for me. I was able to fully fall asleep on the inaugural flight last Thursday on my back and was very comfortable. The aisle armrest completely retracts giving you additional space although I kept it in the “up position” while I was snoozing (full disclosure - I'm a small guy and a larger person might not find the seat as accommodating). As AA-Flyer-SAN commented, when the person behind you adjusts their seat you do feel it in your seat as a sort of thump. I asked the gentleman sitting in 2A on the inaugural flight if he could feel it when I adjusted my seat and he replied that he had indeed noticed that. I imagine this could be a problem on a long haul flight if you are asleep and your neighbor decides to do some seat adjustment. Of the AA premium seats that I have actually experienced, this is my preference in order.
77W F > 777 F > 77W J > A321T F ≈ 788 J > NGBC seat on any aircraft
I have experienced neither the 77D J seat nor the 763 CIP J seat. Since the introduction of the A321T, I have only flown in F on transcons so I have not had the opportunity to try the A321T J seat.
Last edited by marnold3; May 11, 2015 at 12:06 pm
May 11, 2015, 11:29 am
#20
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Thanks! I'm asking becasue I (have to) travel with a service animal.
Unless that barrier separating the area under the footrest from the rest is removable (which I doubt it is), I'll have to stay clear of AAs 787. No space for the dog there.
Too bad, I was really looking forward to the 787.
The refurbished 767s with the Thompson Vantage seats are much better in this regard. Here's to hoping they will stay in the fleet for a long time to come.
Unless that barrier separating the area under the footrest from the rest is removable (which I doubt it is), I'll have to stay clear of AAs 787. No space for the dog there.
Too bad, I was really looking forward to the 787.
The refurbished 767s with the Thompson Vantage seats are much better in this regard. Here's to hoping they will stay in the fleet for a long time to come.
May 12, 2015, 8:57 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: LAX/ORD/HNL
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I wanted to wait a bit before posting the following comment because I really do appreciate American Airlines' efforts at fleet modernization and welcome the addition of fully flat-bed seats to the long haul and ultra-long haul aircraft. I assume I was the first revenue passenger in seat 1A on last Thursday's inaugural 788 flight, therefore the seat should not yet have been subject to passenger use and abuse. If you were buying a new car, the fit and finish have to be close to perfect or you would reject it. I realize the economic parameters surrounding a fleet modernization plan for an airline are vastly different than the purchase of a private automobile but I just can't get over the fit and finish of seat 1A before it had seen any revenue passengers. Is this the norm in seat manufacturing for the airlines? I really don't know the answer and would greatly appreciate all insights.
May 12, 2015, 9:37 pm
#22
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,384
Inconsistency is the norm. This is not a mass produced product like a car. Many other instances of this (eg. AA 77W) on many airlines. There are always new product introduction issues. I think it is rare to have no issues.
It generally gets better down the road (or sky).
It generally gets better down the road (or sky).
May 13, 2015, 2:03 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2003
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If you are sensitive to having your seat jostled - I would say the window seats in 5, 6 and 7 would be your best bet as a single flyer.
May 13, 2015, 4:26 pm
#24
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If I have a flight on the 788 I will definitely book seat 1A. I believe it is the most private seat in the J cabin.
As other posters have commented, the seat does feel a little “confining” with not much storage space on the floor. Yes, the rear facing seats seem to be a bit roomier than the front facing seats but the privacy of seat 1A (front facing) outweighs this factor for me. I was able to fully fall asleep on the inaugural flight last Thursday on my back and was very comfortable. The aisle armrest completely retracts giving you additional space although I kept it in the “up position” while I was snoozing (full disclosure - I'm a small guy and a larger person might not find the seat as accommodating). As AA-Flyer-SAN commented, when the person behind you adjusts their seat you do feel it in your seat as a sort of thump. I asked the gentleman sitting in 2A on the inaugural flight if he could feel it when I adjusted my seat and he replied that he had indeed noticed that. I imagine this could be a problem on a long haul flight if you are asleep and your neighbor decides to do some seat adjustment. Of the AA premium seats that I have actually experienced, this is my preference in order.
77W F > 777 F > 77W J > A321T F ≈ 788 J > NGBC seat on any aircraft
I have experienced neither the 77D J seat nor the 763 CIP J seat. Since the introduction of the A321T, I have only flown in F on transcons so I have not had the opportunity to try the A321T J seat.
As other posters have commented, the seat does feel a little “confining” with not much storage space on the floor. Yes, the rear facing seats seem to be a bit roomier than the front facing seats but the privacy of seat 1A (front facing) outweighs this factor for me. I was able to fully fall asleep on the inaugural flight last Thursday on my back and was very comfortable. The aisle armrest completely retracts giving you additional space although I kept it in the “up position” while I was snoozing (full disclosure - I'm a small guy and a larger person might not find the seat as accommodating). As AA-Flyer-SAN commented, when the person behind you adjusts their seat you do feel it in your seat as a sort of thump. I asked the gentleman sitting in 2A on the inaugural flight if he could feel it when I adjusted my seat and he replied that he had indeed noticed that. I imagine this could be a problem on a long haul flight if you are asleep and your neighbor decides to do some seat adjustment. Of the AA premium seats that I have actually experienced, this is my preference in order.
77W F > 777 F > 77W J > A321T F ≈ 788 J > NGBC seat on any aircraft
I have experienced neither the 77D J seat nor the 763 CIP J seat. Since the introduction of the A321T, I have only flown in F on transcons so I have not had the opportunity to try the A321T J seat.
May 13, 2015, 4:28 pm
#25
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I completely agree with AA-Flyer-SAN. The person in the rear-facing seat adjacent to my seat moved around quite a bit during the flight. I could feel just about every move he made. At times it was the equivalent to having someone grabbing on the back of my seat.
If you are sensitive to having your seat jostled - I would say the window seats in 5, 6 and 7 would be your best bet as a single flyer.
If you are sensitive to having your seat jostled - I would say the window seats in 5, 6 and 7 would be your best bet as a single flyer.
May 13, 2015, 7:24 pm
#26
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On an ORD-DFW leg next weekend. Flying partner is in 1A, myself in 2A. Will report back with anecdotal evidence. I'll try to take pictures too, but the "kid in a candy store" effect might hinder that ability. Nothing like that new plane smell 
May 14, 2015, 7:11 am
#27
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Seat 4H on AA91 ORD-DFW last night looked to be very broken. An FA spent a lot of time trying to manually adjust it. Apparently, if you lift up the seat cushion and open a metal flap there are a number of switches that allow manual control. I guess that each one disconnects an automatic actuator so that that axis can be moved manually.
May 14, 2015, 7:15 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,384
Is there much noise in 2A/2L from the galley? Or am I better off with 4A? This is an overnight flight from China for us, so I'd prefer less noise.
We're a family of 4, so row 2 worked from that regard - all of us in alignment. Is row 4 similarly aligned?
Thanks!
We're a family of 4, so row 2 worked from that regard - all of us in alignment. Is row 4 similarly aligned?
Thanks!
May 14, 2015, 7:21 am
#29
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I completely agree with AA-Flyer-SAN. The person in the rear-facing seat adjacent to my seat moved around quite a bit during the flight. I could feel just about every move he made. At times it was the equivalent to having someone grabbing on the back of my seat.
If you are sensitive to having your seat jostled - I would say the window seats in 5, 6 and 7 would be your best bet as a single flyer.
If you are sensitive to having your seat jostled - I would say the window seats in 5, 6 and 7 would be your best bet as a single flyer.
May 14, 2015, 7:47 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I experienced the same seat-mate movement as well. In 2L I could feel any just about any type of movement from my 1L seat-mate and he could no doubt feel my movement. I can't imagine how annoying this would be while trying to sleep on a long flight. Major design flaw IMO. BTW, I did not experience this in 5A as it was not "connected" to any other seat. Then again, row 5 is near the door 2L galley and the usual galley/FA noise.
With all these complaints, makes me wonder why they didn't include FT'ers in the design planning.
We would have been willing to also "test drive" them before the actual launch to help them get this right!
Cheers.