Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
May 7, 2015, 1:45 pm
#1
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Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Business offers 1-2-1 herringbone with reversed back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats.
See the photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers. Thread link.
Link to SeatGuru CURRENT Boeing 787-8 seat diagram. NOTE: There is no remaining “Version 1” as depicted by SeatGuru.
Below is depiction of Business cabin after refit - Business seats in rows 1-5 only; seats 1D, 1H, 5A and 5L free of “motion over the ocean” connected seat induced movement.
- Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. The stable four seats are shown encircled in green below.
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room when flat than aft facing seats.
- Middle seat dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they are arbitrarily fixed in the "up" or “down” position by maintenance, making it impossible to know which seats are best for privacy or couples for couples wanting to share conversation
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins, which were displaced by the fuselage crown crew rest area
- Rows 6 and 7 were converted to Premium Economy by early 2019.
Link to SeatGuru CURRENT Boeing 787-8 seat diagram. NOTE: There is no remaining “Version 1” as depicted by SeatGuru.
Below is depiction of Business cabin after refit - Business seats in rows 1-5 only; seats 1D, 1H, 5A and 5L free of “motion over the ocean” connected seat induced movement.
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 14, 2020 at 9:40 am Reason: Update
May 7, 2015, 3:38 pm
#2
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Having now sat in both directions... forward facing 5A and rear facing 2L, there is substantially more room in the rear facing window seats. Forward facing seats have a seat wall that makes shoulder width very narrow and confining. Rear facing seats do not have the wall and let you comfortably relax towards the window giving it a much more spacious feel. Add in the fact that the view is much better in the closer to the window rear facing seats and I would always select a rear facing window seat on future flights. IMO, seats 2A, 2L, 4A and 4L are far superior to any other seats in the forward cabin.
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 1, 2019 at 2:44 pm Reason: add emphasis for visibility
May 7, 2015, 4:05 pm
#5
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I'm booked on an international with the family. Any thoughts on this approach? Parents in 2A and 2L, with kids in 2D and 2H. They are well behaved and are 90% self sustaining - just need help getting settled into the bed comfortably etc.
My thought being that parents can enjoy the wider seats, and look into the kids in 2D and 2H. And they can communicate with each other as they quietly play their iPads.
My thought being that parents can enjoy the wider seats, and look into the kids in 2D and 2H. And they can communicate with each other as they quietly play their iPads.
May 7, 2015, 4:16 pm
#6
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I'm booked on an international with the family. Any thoughts on this approach? Parents in 2A and 2L, with kids in 2D and 2H. They are well behaved and are 90% self sustaining - just need help getting settled into the bed comfortably etc. My thought being that parents can enjoy the wider seats, and look into the kids in 2D and 2H. And they can communicate with each other as they quietly play their iPads.
May 7, 2015, 4:27 pm
#7
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I flew up in Coach and back in First (seat 1H, rear facing middle aisle).
From UA, I'm already partial to rear facing. If for nothing else, it's for the novelty of it and a change of pace. On the UA threads there's a lot of talk about the rear facing seats allowing better sleep because the planes fly slightly nose up so a rear facing seat has your head elevated ever so slightly above your feet. I believe this, but honestly can't give you any more "data points" than my simple subjective thoughts. Obviously out of scope to consider on my short ORD-DFW flight.
Couples.
I'm single
I don't think the AA 787 arrangement will work well.
For rear facing seats, your heads are close to each other but at an angle (when looking straight ahead) away from each other.
For forward facing, your heads are separated a good bit. Your feet are what converge. I don't think conversation would be feasible.
Both forward/read facing middle aisles have a privacy divider.
While boarding, my seatmate had not arrived yet so I played around trying to figure out how to lower the divider.
On arrival, my seatmate tried the same. We both failed.
The passenger in the window next to me had First both ways and said that on the way up they were told AA was having too much trouble with those dividers, so they're (for now) "permanantly" up.
Nice ride, I was very impressed. Takeoff is practically silent when riding up front. Could use an info card on how to operate all controls, but it wasn't that hard to figure out ... just had to play around a bit.
.... gotta go ..... time for my next flight ....
From UA, I'm already partial to rear facing. If for nothing else, it's for the novelty of it and a change of pace. On the UA threads there's a lot of talk about the rear facing seats allowing better sleep because the planes fly slightly nose up so a rear facing seat has your head elevated ever so slightly above your feet. I believe this, but honestly can't give you any more "data points" than my simple subjective thoughts. Obviously out of scope to consider on my short ORD-DFW flight.
Couples.
I'm single
I don't think the AA 787 arrangement will work well.For rear facing seats, your heads are close to each other but at an angle (when looking straight ahead) away from each other.
For forward facing, your heads are separated a good bit. Your feet are what converge. I don't think conversation would be feasible.
Both forward/read facing middle aisles have a privacy divider.
While boarding, my seatmate had not arrived yet so I played around trying to figure out how to lower the divider.
On arrival, my seatmate tried the same. We both failed.
The passenger in the window next to me had First both ways and said that on the way up they were told AA was having too much trouble with those dividers, so they're (for now) "permanantly" up.
Nice ride, I was very impressed. Takeoff is practically silent when riding up front. Could use an info card on how to operate all controls, but it wasn't that hard to figure out ... just had to play around a bit.
.... gotta go ..... time for my next flight ....
May 7, 2015, 7:38 pm
#8
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 97
Having now sat in both directions... forward facing 5A and rear facing 2L, there is substantially more room in the rear facing window seats. Forward facing seats have a seat wall that makes shoulder width very narrow and confining. Rear facing seats do not have the wall and let you comfortably relax towards the window giving it a much more spacious feel. Add in the fact that the view is much better in the closer to the window rear facing seats and I would always select a rear facing window seat on future flights. IMO, seats 2A, 2L, 4A and 4L are far superior to any other seats in the forward cabin.
May 7, 2015, 8:00 pm
#9
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Link to SeatGuru Boeing 787-8 seat diagram.
This Boeing 787-8 is the newest addition to American Airlines' fleet. This three-class aircraft seats a total of 226 passengers,
May 7, 2015, 8:28 pm
#10
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May 7, 2015, 9:10 pm
#11
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Having now sat in both directions... forward facing 5A and rear facing 2L, there is substantially more room in the rear facing window seats. Forward facing seats have a seat wall that makes shoulder width very narrow and confining. Rear facing seats do not have the wall and let you comfortably relax towards the window giving it a much more spacious feel. Add in the fact that the view is much better in the closer to the window rear facing seats and I would always select a rear facing window seat on future flights. IMO, seats 2A, 2L, 4A and 4L are far superior to any other seats in the forward cabin.
May 8, 2015, 4:30 am
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You compared them to the F seats on the A321T, which is rather bad news for me....
May 9, 2015, 1:34 am
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May 9, 2015, 6:00 am
#14
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Is there a functional difference in shoulder width between the front and rear facing seats when flattened into a bed? I'm worried I'll have to sleep on my side the whole way to and from PEK.
May 9, 2015, 6:18 am
#15
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Good question. Unfortunately, I didn't try the flat position. But I'd guess no difference since the seat itself is the same. In a flat position the shoulder/elbow room issue is probably the same. Although I still think that the rear facing window seats would feel less claustrophic. In either case, the seats are so narrow to begin with that sleeping on your side may be the only comfortable position.